Hon Samson Osagie

Honourable Samson Osagie was the Minority Whip in the House of Representatives of the 7th National Assembly. In this interview with journalists, the lawmaker who just clocked 50 spoke about his role as Minority Whip of the House, his political future, the politcs of election of leadership of parliament among other issues. In the first part of the interview (which can be read here) the former lawmaker who is now Executive Director, Marketing and Business Development, NIGCOMSAT spoke about his early years, education,  advent in politics, law profession his 16 years sojourn as a lawmaker as well as his failed bid to transit to the Senate from the Green chamber. Ayorinde Oluokun was there.

The 7^th House, under Speaker Aminu Tambuwal was a very vibrant one and you were the minority whip. But there was a particular challenge for members like you from the South-south with the President being from your region then. The argument was that regardless of party, legislators from South-south should have supported Jonathan…

Well, it would have been a dilemma if the President then has taken us as his own with whom he must work because in a political relationship, what is constant is interest.  Apart from the fact that we are in different political parties, there could be bi-partisan collaboration if the politics and the approaches are right. The former President never relate with us as Representatives from the South South. So, against the backdrop of the absence of such a gesture from him, it didn’t also matter to him whether there were South-south people in Parliament. So, to us, it didn’t matter who was the President, what mattered was that there must be good governance and things must be appropriately done and we must also do our work as members of the opposition to put government on its toes.

I can remember when we met with the President Jonathan during the fuel subsidy crisis and we advised him that the increase in fuel price was not at the right time and should be adjusted and that we are talking to him because we are members of his constituency in the South-south and that we wouldn’t want his administration to be crumbled by strikes and protests. It was a bipartisan delegation- PDP and ACN. He told us that he was not interested in our suggestions and that he was ready to go ahead with it. But eventually when push came to shove, the suggestion was what he resorted to.

So, there was no dilemma because even he himself did not relate to anybody on the basis of South-south. We were doing our job as parliamentarians. We were not constrained by any means even though that administration was not comfortable with the Leadership of the House of Representatives under My brother and friend Rt. Hon. Aminu Waziri Tambuwal now Governor of Sokoto State , a Great Leader.
But there was nothing the administration could do about it because Tambuwal was a product of the members themselves. We were ready to defend that Leadership with the last drop of our blood

What role did you play in the emergence of Tambuwal because many people believed you played a very strategic role…

Well, if you say I was very strategic in the Tambuwal for Speaker project then, how would you describe my role in the Dimeji Bankole for Speaker project? Recall that in 2007, when we came in, Right Honourable Patricia Etteh was given to us as our Speaker, a very nice woman, but of course, in the absence of a contest, we accepted her. Those of us who came in newly from the State Houses of Assembly did not understand what was going on and we were ready to live by it. Four months later, you will recall that her Speakership ended with the emergence of Hon. Dimeji Bankole. Don’t forget that I have the historic role of nominating Hon. Dimeji Sabur Bankole as the Speaker of the House of Representatives.

How did that happened? It is instructive to note that my activities within four months in the Parliament were what stood me out in the face of the older members who were actually the architects of the Patricia Etteh must go project in favour of Hon. Dimeji Bankole. I was roundly nominated to be the one to move for the nomination of Hon. Dimeji Bankole and that was to set the tone for my positive movement in the leadership ladder of the House.

In the Tambuwal for Speaker project, the truth is that I was not the brain behind. But I was part of those who pioneered the Project. I intend to do a paper on The Politics of Parliament, The Parliament of Politics. It is usually a huge task to survive the Politics in a parliament of 360 members where a lot of dexterity, a lot of understanding and a lot of networking and horse trading is needed in raising Leadership for a new parliament.

Now, when we were elected in 2011, the next thing was how to put the leadership in place? And because of my activities in the 6th Assembly a few of our colleagues who were older came together to draw a road map for the next Assembly and then, when they came together, they did not fail to recognize that I was there. So, I was called upon by now Senator John Enoh, Hon. Faruk Lawan, My Leader Hon. Femi Gbajabiamila, Aminu Tambuwal himself and a few others.  I was called to a meeting where we now said we must begin to fashion out what the House will do to choose a Speaker that the members will elect by themselves. It wasn’t clear what the PDP that has the majority was going to do. It was Hon. Femi Gbajabiamila, who was actually doing his own third term that hinted to me that the direction we are going was Tambuwal. And I have no difficulty at all falling for that project because in my first tenure, Tambuwal has shown to be a leader, honestly.

As a deputy chief whip, then, Tambuwal demonstrated his dexterity, ability to carry people along, his understanding of parliamentary processes and procedures and his networking ability was unequalled, so I have no difficulty when the name was passed on to me. I got it from Hon. Gbajabiamila who sold it to me and that was why we bonded so much between 2011 and 2015. I even have to become the Spokesman for Tambuwal in the then ACN caucus while Gbajabiamila step behind. That was how we moved into the Tambuwal project which we tagged “the House Project” before the PDP zeroed down on my sister Hon. Mulikat Akande (a very kind hearted lady) and before you know what is happening a multi party coalition swept Tambuwal into Office as Speaker.

The People who were involved in the Tambuwal for Speaker project were formidable and highly experienced legislators and usually in the Parliament, nothing galvanizes the members  more than wanting to take their destiny in their own hands when it comes to choosing who their Leader will be irrespective of party differences. And those who rely on external factors to assume leadership in the Parliament usually don’t get it and even when they get it, they don’t stay long on the job.

In the course of time he (Tambuwal) found me very useful to be able to present issues, especially at very critical moments because I have the courage of my convictions to put issues across, for instance, the bribe scandal during fuel price increase probe, remember, I was the one that delivered the historic address that calmed frayed nerves and reposition the house in a better light. So, the leaders will always call on me at such critical moments because they know that I have the gift of the garb in order to be able to put issues across to members and the people in the larger society. Indeed my party then, the ACN appointed Hon. Femi Gbajabiamila and I as Minority Leader and Minority Whip respectively after Tambuwal emerged as Speaker.

In the twilight of that Parliament, we saw Parliamentarians who were supposed to be models of decency scaling the fence in an attempt to stave off the removal of Speaker Tambuwal. The perception in the larger society of such events and others was that most of you are less than honorable when it comes to issues about yourselves?

Thank But that perception is subjective. I want to ask you: If there is fire in your house and you are coming from outside and then, your family members are inside and your window is closest to you, will you go through the window or start knocking on a locked door? I hope you remember what Aristotle once said and I quote “…..self preservation is the first Law of nature. “

The issue is that the Parliament has become the whipping child in Nigerian democracy. Don’t just look at that action; also look at the action of those who were responsible for locking out Parliamentarians. Why should you lock out Parliamentarians in the first place? Has it ever occurred to you that it was the executive then that was responsible for that because a man took a political decision? If there are issues of law, you deal with them in the law courts. Let the courts decide.

So, who is even more dishonourable, those who invaded the sanctity of the Parliament or the Parliamentarians who took every step to protect the Parliament? The answer is obvious.

What drives you as an individual?

Well, as an individual, I have a knack for affecting my environment. When I have opportunity to affect the people around me, to affect my environment, I am at my best element. I have a spirit for public service, for excellence, I don’t want to be in a system where I would not make impact. So, what fires me is any opportunity that I get to make an impact and to contribute. I have this public service spirit.

I am not carried away by the desire to make money even though today, a lot of people feel that I am a multibillionaire. If you go to Benin now, they are going to point to you a lot of properties that they say I own whereas I don’t know anything about them.

I have only one residential building in Benin. Over 60 per cent of my earnings were channeled to helping the people, but I won’t deny the fact that serving in government has bettered my life as well- the opportunity it afforded me was tremendous. I wasn’t who I was when I started. It may interest you to know that for the period I spent I had no single scandal bothering on corruption or corrupt practices despite the fierce opposition I had to face towards the end of my last tenure. So, I must give glory to God for that.

How would you compare the Nigerian Democracy culture and that of America…

You must understand that the American democracy and its democratic culture is quite different from ours. As at the time I came into the House in 1999, it was at best experimental. Many people were sceptical about the sincerity of the military to relinquish power. The military has just left, civilians were coming in. The Parliament was not a developed organ of government and then, we were the pioneers of this Fourth Republic. Luckily, very few of us soldier on to rise to the level w got to.

So, what I can say is that until now, there has been no legislative culture. Most of the legislative practices are borrowed from those of advanced democracies, sometimes mixed- don’t forget we had a little experience with Parliamentary democracy of Great Britain, before we now switch to the presidential democracy in 1979 and 1999. Ours have been a mixed grill. But what I can tell you is that it is true when Erskine May, a Constitutionalist said the Parliament has the power to make and unmake. I am writing a book now: The Powers and Functions of the National Assembly Under The Constitution Of The Federal Republic Of Nigeria, If you go through the entire gamut of the Nigerian Constitution, no other organ has the kind of powers the National Assembly has. But the democratic environment under which the National Assembly functions is antagonistic to the effective performance of the Legislative functions of the National Assembly.

Who do you blame for that?

We are not talking of who to blame now. It’s a systemic problem. It is because our democratic culture has not developed. That People like JF Kennedy, John Mcain, Joe Biden and many others could afford to stay that number of years in American Parliament was because people were not judging them on the basis of where they come from or for how long they have stayed or for how many projects they have executed. People were judging them because they have become experienced in what they stand for- the issues. In other words, the American democratic culture is centered on issues and developed institutions.

So, the people themselves have come to understand that good governance can only prevail when you have people who are representatives of the bulk of the masses and who stand for issues that will benefit them in terms of healthcare, tax policies and so on. But many of the Nigerian voters are not interested in those things. What they are interested in is how much they can make during electioneering. You can then see the different environment. The Nigerian democratic environment is very hostile to the development and the nurturing of the legislature.

And so, for those of us who have had the privilege of staying long, don’t be surprised that it is either we have become so hated for staying that long or we are considered stumbling blocks for those aspiring to push you out. Nobody is interested in our contributions or the quality of our representation. Not many people today is interested in how I fought when the Spanish Security first killed a Nigerian aboard an Iberia airplane- everyday now you hear about treatment of Nigerians in other countries- but I was the pioneer mover of a motion on it on 7, July, 2007, barely one month after I entered the House of Reps, complaining about the killing of a Nigerian -Osamuyi Akpitanyi – by Spanish security operatives. That was what gave the breath of life to citizen diplomacy. Today you now hear many people talking about it, my sister Hon Abike Dabiri has taken it as her project and is indeed doing well with the advocacy particularly as the Presidential Aide on Diaspora. She has done well with it I must confess.

But I was actually the first person to move a motion which called national attention to it in the House of Representatives. But not many people is remembering that now. Nobody remembered how we fought against the removal of Sanusi Lamido Sanusi on the basis of his exposition of the missing $20 billion from the Nation’s revenue stream. I was the one that moved the motion in the House that that a Central Bank Governor with that courage need to be celebrated rather than given the booth.

Not many people would remember how With Chief Peter Igho’s Support as DG National Lottery Commission I brought a branch of the Nigerian Lottery Commission to Edo State That it was during my tenure as the chairman of the House Committee on Special Duties,  I took the South-south office of Lottery Commission to Edo State and if you get there today, a lot of Edo people are working there. Our democratic environment is very hostile to the development of the legislature and that does not remove from us the onerous responsibility imposed by the constitution.

Now, people condemn us over constituency projects. They look at it as one of the ways in which we siphoned money. But it is not true. It was through the instrumentality Of Constituency projects I brought school, health, electricity, road projects to my Constituency. There are there for those who are not biased to see. So, to answer your question, for those who understand, serving legislators are able to identify those who have served well in the legislature. Since I left office, I have been a Consultant to the National Assembly on constitutional matters.

You used to be the vice chairman of the committee …

When I was there, I was the chairman, Technical sub – Committee on Constitution Reviews courtesy of Rt. Hon. Emeka Ihedioha, then Deputy Speaker and Chairman of the Committee. But since I left the National Assembly I have been a Consultant to that committee. I have also been invited by so many state legislatures to talk to them. I am one of those advocating for legislative independence. I have spoken in so many Houses of Assemblies. So, what we have to bring on the table is to continue to educate the legislators themselves to understand that no one else can build the institution of the legislature except themselves. They must begin to imbibe the culture of building a legislative body so as to be able to strengthen good governance because in the absence of the legislature, what you have is dictatorship.

But how do you feel about the fact that none of the constitutional amendment processes initiated by the National Assembly has been concluded?

It is very sad because constitutional review process is not cheap. However it’s not only the 4th Amendment that didn’t succeed. There has been first, second and third amendments. People may not understand when you put in a lot of effort and you don’t succeed, it becomes a wasted effort. I feel sad about it particularly the fourth amendment, I was part of it. It was a function of over politicization of issues and then, over personalization of office. Those are the two reasons why the fourth amendment failed.

There were issues that touched on the office of the President, all in the name of defending the functions of the President, President Jonathan rejected those provisions and refused to assent it. But those issues were meant to strengthen institutions of governance generally because when we want to strengthen institutions and make them strong like Obama suggested, everybody must be ready to give something for it.

The process was unduly politicized because they feel that some of the matters were not favorable to their political party at that material time. There are other issues that were mere technicalities.

And that is why the approach this time is different in the 8th Assembly. In the past, it was just one bill- all the issues were lumped together. So, if the President refused to sign, the entire process is truncated. And the wisdom of the 8th Assembly which we did not apply then is that let’s make every issue a bill, so that if the President refused to sign a particular bill, it is only one issue. If he doesn’t sign A, he can sign B and then, we can still salvage some things. And I think that is the best way out. Let me tell you, the American Constitution is not up to 250 pages. But there have been several amendments that have become part of that constitution.

Part of our challenge as a nation is that we want everything to be in the constitution. But that shouldn’t be the case. We have so catapulted our ethno-religious, political demands and agitations into issues of national interest and we want them to be in the constitution. A state wants to create local government, because the state would have more revenue from the federal government not because the potentials of the state support it.  A region wants more states, not because of the consideration of its viability, but it wants to collect more money from the centre. That shouldn’t be the basis. So, our approach to constitution making must change.

The legislators are offshoot of the society and by the time they are inundated with requests for x, y, z, they may become so constrained as to make the constitution unwieldy. If we are not careful with the way we are going about it now, in the next 20 to 25 years our constitution may be bigger than the Webster Dictionary.

Would you say the political class has served Nigerians well generally?

The political class includes you and I. The media cannot extricate itself from being in position to mould opinion. In fact, that is an organ of government that is not so much ‘constitutionalised’ in terms of having a governance structure, but is very powerful in moulding opinion, because let me tell you,  as we speak today for some people, anything they see in the papers is correct. So, when you talk of the political class, it varies.

I think the first time Nigerians vented their anger was in the 2015 elections. That was when one was beginning to see that Nigerians are getting politically conscious. It is not just when you talk and the people hear you. You can also speak through your votes. Do you know many people don’t even bother to register for voting? But voting is a way of contributing to the process.

So, the political class has also taken advantage of the people in a way, in order to perpetuate some of the things that have happened. If they know that there is a vocal vibrant opposition, the political class will adjust in what they do. But the truth again is that the ordinary Nigerians have to change their attitude towards life and government generally because it looks like everybody thinks that they can always have their ways on whatever they want depending on if your brother is governor or president. That attitude must change.

We must promote meritocracy above favouritism. You see people becoming billionaires overnight simply because they have people in government. They execute funny contracts and you can’t see any definite thing they have done. They have not created one job. So, the expectation of the non political class is such that they are even encouraging the political class to do the wrong things if it benefits them. Those who are benefitting from the wrong decisions and actions of the political class are happy. What I am saying in effect is that everybody has a role to play.

You have been in politics for a long time –  in the parliament for 16 years, even the period you were lawmaker elect , you want to be the vice chairman and chairman of Council and so on, but do you think that the fact that you went into politics at a very young age did not allow you to see life the way you would have wanted to see it?

I believe I am one of the luckiest people from Edo State, if not Nigeria, politically speaking. They wanted me to be Vice Chairman of a local government. I didn’t get it. They wanted me to be Senator, I didn’t get it.  I have never felt disappointed at all. At least I have been a member of the National Assembly. No regrets at all.

Are there things you would have done differently today, looking back to your political career?

Well, if I had continued in representative capacity as a legislator, I probably would have improved on the things I did- pursue more projects for my constituency, assist more people. I don’t have any regret that these things I did, I shouldn’t have done them. I took my steps consciously at every point in time and I was guided by what posterity will hold for me at the end of the day. And since the two and a half years that I have left office, I have no cause to regret any of the actions I took, none.

Are you going to run for public office again, especially given the fact that your governor then, Adams Oshiomhole dismissed you as an unpopular candidate when you lost the Senate election…

I don’t think he dismissed me as an unpopular candidate. I am not aware he said so. And as we speak, I have no rift with him. If I played back the records of his campaign for me for the Senate then you would understand that he couldn’t have said so. If you see the campaign he did for me in the electronics and even, the print media, I still have them; you would understand that he believed so much in my ability to represent Edo South Senatorial District.

But the reasons why I lost that election are quite clear- the combination of the election with the presidential election, Edo State being in the South-south geopolitical region where the former President who was a Presidential Candidate of the PDP comes from and the impact of money politics from the federal government. And on whether I would run for election again, it is a matter that cannot be ruled out. I am just 50.

(Cuts in) Are you not tired, don’t you want the emergence of a new breed?

Am I not a new breed? I want to ask you, apart from Governor Yahaya Bello, which governor am I older than? Tell me?  Let me put it clearly that I am not a politically spent force in my state and when the opportunity presents itself, I would offer myself for service once again. But that will depend on a number of factors anyway. I have been mentoring a lot of younger people that come to me. A lot of people from my state come to Abuja to see me, to talk about their interest in politics and I encouraged them. There are some, I read their write ups on social media, I see the kind of principles they hold and the kind of courage they exude I called them, in-boxed them to chat with them, encourage them, advise them on what they can do.

The truth must be told- no situation remained the same forever though. In my local government for instance, many of those I met in politics are no more there. I recalled in 1996/1997, when they were taking me around-‘let’s go and see this man, he is very influential.’  And I sat down one day and said, where are these men? Some have died and some have disappeared from the horizon. So, in a way we are also withdrawing from that grassroots and local politics, not because we don’t want to do it, but we don’t have the time. Other young people are coming and we are encouraging them. I am already doing that because I want to be sure who is going to represent me for instance at the state and at the federal level. I cannot now start to go and contest for the House of Assembly seat or for Local Government chairmanship. I have also grown in the political ladder, yet very electable.

What would you want to leave behind as a legacy?

Well, I am putting three books together. My thinking is that the proceeds from those books would be used to establish a foundation on which I intend to support indigent people to acquire education because like one philosopher said, the easiest way to elevate a people is through education. Another person puts it differently. He said if you want to annihilate a society, you don’t need guns, you don’t need bombs. Just ensure that the people are not educated. So, I want to support education. And I also have an idea of using my foundation to support those who are medically challenged, particularly with respect to sickle cell and cancer. These are three areas that touched my soul. The education aspect directly affects me.  Who would have been Samson Osagie without education? Better imagined than described. With respect to health I have very close persons that are afflicted and I know what the challenges are for the families and I intend to go ahead to support the people in my community who are affected as well.

What is your view about money politics and god fatherism?

The truth be told, I do not know of any society where acquisition of political power, except in monarchies where money does not play a role. Even in some monarchies unless it is established on the principles of primogeniture money counts. In monarchies,  where a king emerged through ruling houses money talks. It is difficult to have politics without money, you can only minimize the spending of money or regulate it the way they do in America. You can see that they couldn’t even regulate DJ Trump. Now, for us, the people have become so weather-beaten, so demoralized, impoverished that electioneering period provides a ray of hope to grab from the political class who they see as having amass the wealth of the society.  And it’s a serious political problem.

It is money that creates god fatherism because god fatherism emerges from an arrangement that throws up particular individuals who have amassed the wealth of the society to become Lords and decide the fate of others because they could dispense what they have acquired to the people who troop after them in order to eke out a living.

What can be done is that the incidence can be reduced through stiff regulation by the election management body, campaigns for people to understand that money politics does not give the best of representations because if you sell your votes, you must be ready to live by the government you get. If you sell your votes those elected will no longer be accountable to you..
Also read: I began learning lessons of life afresh out of power – Hon. Osagie