A former CBN governor, Charles Soludo, stirred the hornet’s nest recently (in fact, twice). Do you agree with his position on the present administration?

I have not met Soludo personally and Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala but I believe 10 of Okonjo-Iwealas can’t be compared to one Soludo. Soludo is more thorough than Okonjo-Iweala. I believe Soludo more than I believe Okonjo-Iweala. Okonjo-Iweala is Jonathan’s problem. Nigeria is the only country in the world that makes provision for fraud in the annual budget. Why did I say that? We have proven that petroleum subsidy does not exist but every year you make a provision for subsidy that does not exist.

What do you think Nigerians stand to lose or gain for electing either Buhari or Jonathan?

By electing Jonathan, we have everything to lose. Somebody that is not truthful, somebody that lies with one thing will lie with many things. If Jonathan over time showed that he was improving in what he was doing, I would have given him a chance, right now. Every human being knows his strength and weakness but Jonathan doesn’t know his weakness and even his strength is doubtful. Such a leader is a disaster. Is Jonathan redeemable? No, he is irredeemable. Even if you give him another ten years, he can’t redeem himself.

Jonathan says stealing and corruption are different, how can such person fight corruption? A leader that can’t see that he is destroying himself, a leader that will accommodate somebody who is saying that if his candidate loses an election democratically, he will make the nation ungovernable and you have not arrested him? Even when somebody like Theophilous Danjuma said arrest him, you allow him to abuse the elder statesman who is doing what he should be doing. I can’t entrust Jonathan with a project called Nigeria for one hour.

Come to Buhari, though people say blood is thicker than water but in this case, water is thicker than blood. Buhari is a Muslim Fulani and I am a Christian Ijaw. Whenever I talk about Jonathan’s failure, I have agony in me. In 1987, there was a public lecture where I borrowed from Martin Luther King Jr. that one day a minority man will become a president of Nigeria and if my dream of 1987 has come to pass, I have been vindicated and thank God. But Jonathan has messed up my dream and it is quite unfortunate that it will take a very long time before the presidency will come to us again.

As for Buhari, I have implicit confidence in him. Buhari is a man that his worst enemy can’t say that he is corrupt, his worst enemy can’t say he is undisciplined. Buhari is transparent, you can trust him. Buhari leads by example. He is frugal. As a minister, the only amount I could spend in a month without account is N200. No minister could spend more than N200 without giving account. I love Buhari because I love Nigeria. I love Buhari because I have confidence in him that he can take us to light.

I love Buhari and I thank God for making him appoint me. As a consultant professor, I was earning N20,000 per annum. When I was appointed a minister, my salary was N18, 000. Buhari didn’t believe this when he found out. He called for my pay slip and when he was given and found out that my salary was higher to what I was earning as a minister, he added N2,000 to make what I was earning as a consultant professor. If Buhari is elected, I promise Nigerian that within a year the difference will be so much they will not know that this is a country that had been governed for six years by Jonathan. Things will change.

Corrupt people will start correcting themselves or running away. Education will improve and our greatest asset, petroleum industry will improve. Petroleum makes at least 85 per cent of our annual budget and 95 per cent of what Nigeria has abroad. Any government in Nigeria that can’t manage petroleum is a failure. Jonathan’s government is a failure.

Compare the management of the petroleum sector and the economic policies of your time with what is happening now.

During the era of Buhari, Nigeria didn’t import a litre of petrol; rather, we were exporting. Buhari has promised that if elected, he will build more refineries. Jonathan can build a refinery within 18 months but he chooses not to build a single refinery. If he builds more refineries, then we will refine more products, price of petrol will come down and the poor will not suffer. Okonjo-Iweala once said that if the petroleum price does not stay at N140 or N170, the economy will collapse, it is a lie.

When I said that petrol should not be sold more than N40 per litre, they were abusing me and later, one professor of petroleum in Texas said it should not be more than N35. A virologist said N40 and a petroleum expert says N35 and that shows that I was still far off. Now, Jonathan lied. Okonjo-Iweala, you lied by saying that if petrol price does not stand at N140, Nigeria economy will collapse. When Occupy Nigeria came, you yourself reduced the petrol price to N97 and the country’s economy did not collapse, now you have reduced petrol price to N87, Nigeria has not collapsed. You are lying. They are running government that is not based on science. They are not scientific.
In 1984 or 1985, there was an increase of petrol price by five kobo or thereabout and we made Chris Anyanwu to be talking to people for months. When it went through, Buhari said there should not be increase in kerosene price even with one kobo. Reason, kerosene is the only thing that villagers know showing that God has given Nigeria petrol. Buhari said we can increase PMS by five kobo but on no account should we increase kerosene price even by a kobo. Buhari refused to accept IMF loan. He gave me reason for that.

The government then rejected IMF loan, did counter trade…
We devised a system that makes IMF irrelevant. London Financial Times then called it extraordinary. Shagari was negotiating for $2b from IMF. IMF gave all sorts of conditions. Buhari told me he would not take IMF loan. Then, Colonel Gadaffi sent Major Malaud, his second in command to Lagos. Malaud said that Gadaffi was prepared to give Nigeria $4b interest free. Gadaffi offered Buhari $4b interest free. Buhari got up and thanked Gadaffi and the Libyan government for the good gesture and said that as juicy as the offer is, Nigeria will not accept the offer despite the fact that we didn’t have money. About counter trade, many people are ignorant.

Counter trade is not trade by barter. Counter trade and barter are two different things. When I was a minster under Buhari, he appointed me without knowing me. $5.5 was N1. N2 was one pound. Today, a dollar is about N197, over N300 to a pound sterling. During Buhari’s time, he was told to devalue the naira and he said, I will not devalue the naira. He stood firm and they respected him. What Jonathan does not realize is that these international bodies don’t respect people who are soft; they respect those that are tough with responsibility. The moment an international body sees that you are shaking, they will leave you alone. Does it surprise you that America is not buying our oil? There was a particular country that I will not mention which was troubling us, we stopped our oil supply to them, and they came to beg us. That is a leader that makes Nigeria proud. Buhari can make Nigerians proud. I know that he has what it takes to lead us and what is more important is that Buhari believes in God’s guidance. This man prays regularly.