President Muhammadu Buhar

Were you aware you were going to be removed?

(A deep sigh) Yes, there were security reports that some of my colleagues were not happy with the way I was running the government.

What did you do?

We discussed the issue and I asked them if they were in my position what would they do. Would they have a separate law for themselves and their friends and family and a separate law for the rest of Nigerians. T hey said of course I was right, we should go by the Nigerian law, and so I carried on. Of course they didn’t mean it. Subsequent events which led to the coup showed they didn’t mean it.

Why didn’t you act when you knew they were going to remove you. Why did you have to relax in your sitting room waiting for them? Were you tired and fed up?

No. I. wasn’t tired. I wasn’t fed up either. But I didn’t want to kill anybody for intentions. God knows what is in your heart. Even God does not kill for intentions. But you don’t go and kill people for intentions.

Why did you allow movement of tanks and troops? Why didn’t you act?

Go and ask your minister of defence and his service chiefs about it.

Did you give instructions to them to stop it and they refused?

Go and ask your minister of defence about it, I say. He is ahonest man, he would tell you the truth. Go and ask him.

What should we ask him? Why you didn’t act or what?

Go and ask him about the coup. (laughter) I am going to give you five more minutes.

You were doing a lot ~en, agreed, but why didn’t you stop those who were trying to set the train back.

(Laughter)

How did you feel that the boys who were very close to you like Umar, Abdulmumini were the ones that were actually used to remove you. How did you feel?

That is the word, they were used. I think these are issues I will talk about later on, not now. There is still time to talk about all these.

But did you feel betrayed?

Of course. If you trust people and they betrayed you and the only reason they gave is that you claim to know wore about government then you feel bad. But if they had said okay, I have stolen money or that I have posted someone above them and I did not allow them do their jobs, as specified, then, I’ll say I have called for it. But up till now they haven’t said what I did other than I and Tunde arrogated to ourselves the knowledge of governance. They haven’t said what else we have done.

Was that not true?

Well, I don’t know, go and conduct a public opinion poll.

What went through your mind on the coup day. Were you scared?

Well, that it had happened, it had happened, they said they would do better, after eight years go and find out what they have done. Let them show you what they’ve done.

What is your impression of General Lekwot and how did you see his trial?

The matter now is already before the Supreme Court, what do you want me to say. The verdict of the tribunal is supposed to go to NDSC by decree but now it has gone to several courts. What can I say? I know Lekwot but I am inclined not to make any comment about him because I am amazed at the rate people change these days. But let me say he had a brilliant military career by any standard. What he did with himself after he was retired, I wouldn’t know.

What is your impression of President Babangida? What is your appreciation of his regime more so since it was this same regime that removed you?

You see that is the point. I refused to talk for so long because it is the administration that removed me. But there is nothing I’ll say that people haven’t said about this regime now to their hearing. Look, they have messed up this country. How much is the dollar to the naira now? Or to the pound sterling? How many people now can buy spare parts for their machinery. How many can plan now. Nobody can plan. Now can you plan when your currency has been devalued overnight by 85 per cent?

Where do you go and get the money when the interest is getting to 45 per cent from 30 per cent. That means there will be no growth in this country as long as such policies go on. Every Nigerian knows what the last eight years has meant. Only eight years brought us to the mess we are in now. The situation of things in the last eight years has been terrible. Every Nigerian knows this.

How do you see Vatsa’s death?

Yes I was close to Vatsa as a senior officer, just as I was close to others. I don’t know the extent of his involvement in the coup. I think my closeness to many of my colleagues would tell you that I allow them to work, because that is the way I was treated too. I was humbly there. I served and they allowed me to work. Because unless you are allowed to work your potentialities will never be known. That explains why most of our institutions have been ruined today.

Why did you join the Military?

Because when I as in secondary school, I was in the school cadet and we used to be visited by a reconnaissance unit. General Hassan I think who was a captain, was in charge. We used to go out with them and I was impressed with the discipline in the military. You’ll find out that most of the objectives set out by the military then were always achieved. There was a proper system then of selection of cadets. The facilities were good, the instructors were good. Very importantly, people were allowed to work. Unlike what is presently going on now, there was merit. The system of examination from lieutenant up to major before you become Lt. Cot. were based on merit. So if you don’t perform after three exams you go. You see that is why I like the military, because of its orderliness and, discipline.

During the last currency exchange under your regime, you were criticised for favouring some emirs like the Emir of Gwandu and his 53 suitcases. What happened?

That case of the 53 suitcases was very unfortunate. I did not take it very seriously then until after a Security Council meeting. I asked the Minister of Finance, Dr. Onaolapo Soleye under whom Customs and Excise was working then to go and investigate it. What I know was that there was no favour extended to anybody on the currency issue. There were allegations that people were printing fake naira and bringing it into the country. And we said we have to stop it. The person who was to be my chief of protocol had been outside the country for more than six years and he went through Saudi Arabia and was returning, and then of course the Emir to Gwandu, my junior brother and a few people went out on the lesser hadjj and they came back on the same plane. I could recall I whispered to my ADC that evening when we were playing Golf. I said Mustapha, your father is coming back today, would you not go and meet him, he said, no Sir. I said you have to go and meet your father, he is your father and he went. Unfortunately, there was a misunderstanding between the Customs officers and the soldiers there. These people never refused their bags to be checked. But there was a professional conflict between some customs officers there at Ikeja and The Guardian came up with the report. And he was portrayed in one of the cartoons as a monkey that is stubborn with currency coming out from his mouth and so on. It was the most indecent and unprofessional thing to do. There was nothing about it. I am now strong, healthy and alive, anybody who thinks I have favoured either my brother or any Emir or any officer to break Nigeria’s rule in order to make money or that I have taken money to give any officer so as not to do coup against me as it happens now or that I have given any container to any girlfriend should come out and say it. I haven’t done any such thing before in my life. Tunde Idiagbon also hasn’t done anything like that before. If there is anybody who thinks we’ve done it let him come out and talk.

Are you saying you are clean?

Only God is clean. But if my lack of cleanliness is to the extent of jailing people for stealing public money then I plead guilty. I have put that challenge to all of those who served with me.

By the time this interview is published, hopefully, Nigerians would have elected a new president. How do you see the on-going transition programme?

Did you listen to my interview in 1990?

Was that not on the BBC?

Yes.

Do you mind repeating it to the Nigerian audience now?

In 1990 I said what is going on called transition programmewas pseudo – democracy, it wouldn’t work, or has it worked? It is not meant to work. The transition programme is not meant to work. I mean it.

•This interview was first published by TheNEWS in 1993