Segun Gbadegesin

Q:Do you remember any of your teachers?

A:I had very hardworking teachers who had a lot of influence on me in those days especially in my elementary school years. Some of the teachers came from outside Okeho. One that I specifically remembered was my teacher in infant one who was a woman, married to another teacher in the town, Mrs Adegbile. She was kind, generous and loving. Mr and Mrs Adegbile loved children to the extent that when they were leaving, they wanted me to come with them. They talked to my parents and, of course, that was a non starter for my mother especially because I was an only child.

The others were equally very good to me. Mr Okesiji, now deceased, who was my teacher in primary five and Mr Abokede, who was my primary six teacher. I remember an episode that I narrated in the book when I was in primary six. Mr Okesiji, who was my primary five teacher, was a good football player. He had an accident in the field the previous year when we were in primary five so he was gone for some time. In primary six, Mr Abokede became my teacher and one day, during a recess, I and my fellow classmates were just chatting in class and I looked through the window on the football field and I saw that Mr Okesiji was playing. That was the first time I saw him playing after he had the accident and I shouted in excitement, “my teacher, my teacher is playing soccer again, this is great.” I didn’t know that Mr Abokede, who was my current teacher, was just entering the class. Before I turned around, the entire class was quiet. I looked back and saw Mr Abokede . He said, “Have you seen me play soccer before?” I was embarrassed and I said “No sir, it was Mr Okesiji that I was referring to”. He laughed and didn’t take it seriously. So the point is once my teacher always my teacher.

I took to teaching partly because of the good experience with my teachers and also because my father loved teaching. He once told me that teaching was a secure job, you don’t have the challenge of envy, no jealousy. You teach your students, if they do well, they respect you and you are happy. Preaching is the other job he loved very much because preachers are men of God. They don’t harbor any grudge; there is no jealousy there too. He was particularly concerned about being in good relationship with everyone.

I took to teaching but for a few years I was in banking after obtaining the grade two teacher training certificate. I just taught for six months and then went into banking, National Bank of Nigeria. That was just for about three years prior to my admission to the University. After my university education, I went back to civil service just for about five months, from August to December and after that it has been teaching all through at the university level. So I enjoy teaching very much.

Q: Many philosophers don’t believe in God. Why do you believe in God?

I think it was Francis Bacon who gave a very sublime quote that the little science makes you an atheist but deep knowledge of science makes you a believer in God. We can probably say the same thing about philosophy and faith. It doesn’t mean that there are no occasions for skepticism; it comes with the philosophical territory because we are dealing with matters of mind and spirit.

The mind is the vehicle for reasoning, and reasoning sometimes leads in the direction of atheism, simply because there are certain issues including religious and spiritual issues that you cannot deal with, within the purview of reasoning. Take for instance the belief in God and the existence of God – it is going to be just by faith. The belief in God is just through faith, not through reasoning. You cannot go far enough with any attempt at proving God’s existence as philosophers like Descartes had to realize once confronted with serious objections to their purported proof because you just cannot prove it as you can prove 2 plus 2 equals 4.

However that doesn’t mean that you cannot believe in the existence of God and find some justification for such a belief through your life experiences. Because again we are subjects of mind and subjects of spirit. And it is the spirit that leads through faith in the existence of God. We are not just rationale beings. If you invoke the spirituality of your being then it leads you directly to believe in the existence of God and that’s the way I have managed to relate to it

Sometimes, you know, reason still intrudes, so when I sit down in church and I listen to the sermon and I wonder how can one process this through reasoning. Take, for instance, the issue of Judas Iscariot. Judas apparently was destined to betray Christ. If Judas did not betray Christ, Christ would probably not die. But if Christ did not die then there would be no salvation.So why do we condemn Judas? Does it make sense to condemn Judas for betraying Jesus, if you follow reasoning? Of course, it doesn’t.

Q:Some people say he didn’t confess his sins, just like Peter, otherwise, he would have been forgiven.
A: Yeah, repenting is different because that would come after the fact. But really, how else can someone be expected to repent? The poor man went and committed suicide because he knew what he did was wrong and to me that is the ultimate form of repentance. But the point is that as human beings, we continue to blame Judas. Christ also led us in that direction because he himself suggested that it is written that the son of man will die but woe unto him through whose hand this is accomplished, meaning that yes I must die but the one who betrays me, woe unto him. If you follow reasoning you cannot reconcile these pronouncements. It is not a matter of reasoning. It is a matter of faith and belief.

Q:What other values do you live by?
A: I mentioned in the book about accepting a position of responsibility and ensuring that you carry out what is involved in that position. I was elected president of Egbe Isokan Yoruba in Washington DC in 1994. I saw that as a huge responsibility especially at that time and so I invested my whole being into it. I tell people that if I had not been made a full professor with tenure, I could not have carried out the activities of Egbe Isokan Yoruba and Egbe Omo Yoruba. I would probably not have gotten full professorship because it was like a full time responsibility for me. Whatever I put myself into, I do it to the best of my ability and that’s what I did, certainly with the help of many individuals both in Egbe Isokan Yoruba and Egbe Omo Yoruba. I couldn’t do that alone. My wife played a significant role I n those activities. It was the same thing with my appointment as chair of Department of Philosophy, and later associate Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences. In fact I did that to the point that I had heart problems and had a major heart surgery during my time in the office of the dean – that was because I focused so much on what I needed to do. Nothing for me is more important than doing my utmost best in whatever position I was honoured or I am honoured to serve and I think those who have been my friends and associates can say that much about me now.

Q:Where did that value come from?

A:Again I think it came directly from my father and indirectly from all other sources that he had exposed me to including church, social groups. My father was a stickler to values and he introduced me right from the beginning to the importance of being responsible in whatever position you find yourself. He was a man who will do the most whenever there was any assignment. I remember in those days when a relation died, everybody was gathered around especially young men to dig the grave at the back of the house. My father will volunteer for everything and so that got to me and then it has been my role to do as much as possible whenever duty calls.
I also think that moderation in everything you do is important – especially in the area of material possession which has not been a strong value that many of our people hold dear; but it is very important. I think the craze for material possession is driving us to a negative territory in this country. How much can anyone expect to own and what do you make of it in the final analysis? My father was moderate in terms of material things. He didn’t leave me anything but he left me more in terms of moral values and in terms of what he invested in my education. I can never forget that. Even now I don’t have anything to leave for my children but they have education and they are making it on their own.

Why does one need to accumulate so much in order to leave material things for children and are the children going to be able to be on their own? What will be their value system? That is one thing I think that is driving this craze for material accumulation. “My children and my grand children will not suffer.” “My great grand children will not suffer and so on.” But for goodness sake why don’t you let children work on their own, give them the resources to work on their own, so that they are in a good position to live their lives the way they would like it to be. I think that is very important. I don’t want to belittle the importance of wealth. The fact that I don’t have it doesn’t mean that it is not good but am just saying this in terms of the development of children. They need to be imbued with the value of hard work. Every child needs to work hard to make things for him or herself and the nation would be a lot better off.
I applaud wealthy individuals abroad especially those who give out their money to charity because they would like their children to work hard and create their own wealth.

But there are needy people and they want the needy people to benefit because they didn’t have the kind of background that the wealthy children have. So if you are a child of a wealthy person, your education will be invested in and that gives you the head start and that’s all anyone needs. It is the same thing with the society, you know, just as it is with individuals it is with society. We missed the point initially and that’s why we are suffering now. When Chief Awolowo was asking all to invest human development – human capital – from the bounty that we had as a nation, he was talking sense but he wasn’t taken seriously. If a nation has the kind of resources that we had and we invested in education, building up our educational institutions, by this time we shouldn’t be thinking about negative things. We shouldn’t be having cultists in our universities and even in secondary schools. So we missed that opportunity and now we are paying for it dearly.

There used to be a time when oil was selling for above $100 per barrel. Now it is about $30 something and we are still having many children born on a daily basis, minute by minute. So we compound issues because first, we don’t invest wisely, and second, we have not taken seriously the need to control our population. But when one makes this observation, people say it is elitist, Whenever I visit and I see the sea of heads on our street corners, market places and airport front yards, and I see that we don’t make provisions for these sea of heads, I wonder when this ticking bomb will blow up in our face because what we are doing is putting the nation at risk. I hope that we will get it right before a violent revolution erupts like a volcano and consumes all of us. How is it that we bring up children into the world and we don’t care for them as a nation? How is it? And what do you expect of them? I mean we talk about militancy now, but do we not pay attention to the common saying that the devil finds job for an idle hand? What do you expect when people are hopeless? They don’t see anybody thinking about them. Sure, we are now talking about giving N5000 to graduates, and what’s that going to do? And is that the right way to invest our resources?

APC appealed to everyone, as you know, as a party of change but APC now needs to change. I supported APC because the alternative would have been very disastrous in the country. The revelations are now there to show that the country under PDP was heading for the boulder of destruction. However, change should mean more than just replacing an inept government with a new government if that new government also becomes inept. The way things are now there is still a chance for APC to reboot.

Six months is still ok but I wonder whether the spirit is there for rebooting or whether it’s just the competition again for material accumulation and for selfish aggrandizement that is driving the party. That makes me emotional when I think about that. Is this what everybody wanted as change? Just as I was saying in 1999/ 2000, is this what democracy is all about? Is this what change is about? Some people came to this change idea just to boost their own ego but not for the country. Look at what happened at the National Assembly. It’s just so tragic and sad. I just hope that the president assumes full control. Right now they are saying it is all about 2019 but even the president has not said that he is not running in 2019. I don’t know what the politicking is all about. Even if it is about 2019, shouldn’t the party prepare itself for that victory in 2019? If everybody is running against each other now where is the party going to be in 2019? That is something I cannot figure out?