Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine Foreign Minister, led a seven-man delegation to the inauguration of President Bola Ahmed Tinubu on 29 May 2023. In this interview, Kuleba speaks on the almost 16- month war between Ukraine and Russia, and his country’s readiness to work with the new administration.
With the high level of casualties, what is the stance of Ukraine on the war with Russia? Any plan to retreat in view of severe damages suffered by your country?
When we liberated some of our territories from Russian presence, we found mass graves; we found tortured people and secret rooms where people were kept without reasons for interrogation, without food and without water. Every time we find this out, we understand that if we give in, if we give up and if we succumb, it is not going to help our country. Of course, it motivates us to defend our land and our people. Imagine if Nigeria were invaded (God forbid), would you consider succumbing and ceding part of your territory and allowing others to invade it and torture your people? You will not. I saw your army today at the inauguration of the new President. I am sure the army would be defending your land vigorously. This is what we are doing. We did not begin this war. The war is taking place in our territory, but we know what we are fighting for – for our freedom and for the safety of our citizens, and it motivates us to fight with the invader.
Looking at the magnitude of damage done to your people and country, would you say the war was worth it after all?
Nothing can excuse the war and it was Russia who started it. We never had plans to attack Russia or invade Russia. It was Russia who started the war. We exercised our rights to self-defence. Of course, there is no excuse for Russia starting this war, but as mentioned earlier, there is a strong argument in favour of us defending ourselves. Again, no war is worth starting but once one side decides to attack another, the attacked side has the legitimate right to defend itself. This right is granted to the attacked by international laws, by morals and by the right to defend yourself.
Should Russia decide to cease fire or stop the war, what are the conditions that will make Ukraine back down?
I think you know we should turn tables. Instead of asking conditions for Ukraine to back down, we should be telling Russia to back down. For the reasons I already mentioned, it was Russia who attacked, it wasn’t us. So, they have to back down but in the last four days, there were drones and missile attacks on Kiev. This night (May 29), thousands of drones were sent to attack peaceful Ukrainian cities including Kiev, and just a couple of hours ago, there was another missile attack on Kiev. My children are in Kiev and my daughter called me to say she was frightened. She is in school and she had to go down to the shelter. If Russia wanted to back down, they would probably not be doing this. But we suffer from daily attacks and no country suffers from the war more than Ukraine. This brings me back to my first question, after having seen what Russia does to peaceful citizens, to men, women and children in the occupied territories, we understand that we have to defend ourselves because we know that if we allow Russia to win, there would be an enormous massacre committed in our territory.
How would you describe the assistance of the European Union since the beginning of this hostility? Do you think the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) has kept its promises to your country and government?
NATO never promised anything to us. At the moment when Russia decided to attack Ukraine, NATO was very distant from Ukraine and there was no progress in the integration of Ukraine and NATO. Moreover, NATO did not believe that Ukraine would survive the Russian invasion. So, there were no promises and nothing to discuss but of course, when the war, which is the largest since the Second World War, was taking place in Europe, NATO had to react. They provided us with some assistance, which we appreciate. When it comes to the European Union (EU), they did a lot since the beginning of the war. They have provided us with financial assistance, with certain weapons and also, imposed sanctions on Russia because this is the war they feel directly threatened and they understand that Ukrainians are fighting, not only for themselves but for the security of entire Europe, and in a broader sense, of course, we are also fighting for global security because you see that although the war is taking place in Europe, its precautions affect everybody including those in Africa.
What’s your view on some schools of thought that Ukraine betrayed Russia by pitching its tent with countries considered enemies of Russia?
First, we are not husband and wife to betray each other. Secondly, we never joined any enemies of Russia. In 2014, when Russia invaded Donbas and illegally annexed Crimea, Ukraine was officially by the law, a non-bloc country, not belonging to any military lines. Yet, they still attacked us. Thirdly, who has the Colonial power in Nigeria? United Kingdom. Do you think Nigeria betrayed the British Empire by declaring independence? Probably, not at all. That is the answer to your question. We wanted to be a good neighbour to Russia. We wanted to cooperate and trade with Russia but what we did not want is for Russia to impose its will on us and dictate to us, or make decisions that we have to make about our identity, our culture and most notably, about our way of life. We never posed any threat to Russia, but they always want to impose their will on us. This is the reason we are fighting for our freedom like you did.
Your President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy recently called on the EU for assistance with more sophisticated fighter jets and training of your pilots. How far have these requests been granted?
Training of pilots will begin in the coming weeks. I have no doubts that we will receive the planes. The reason we need them is not only to protect ourselves from missiles but also to protect the grain corridors through which Ukrainian grain and other agricultural products are being exported from my country to Africa, Asia, Middle East and other parts of the world, which helps to keep food prices under control and solve food crises in other countries. So, these planes are needed not only to fight in the air but also to ensure the defence of the grain corridors. So, when we receive these planes, Africa will benefit from it too.
Major share of grains used across the world come from Ukraine and the blockage of grain corridors has lingered. To what extent do you think the war has affected grain production and export?
It greatly impacted both the production and the export of grain. Last autumn, I visited some African countries in the West Coast of Africa and one colleague, a minister from one country, said to me that until the war started, they never realised how important Ukraine was in terms of ensuring food security. And I said to her, “of course, because everything worked perfectly well, you never had any problems with us; your students were studying in Ukraine and were happy. You were receiving grains and your market was stable.” It was only the Russian aggression that caused enormous problems on export because they blocked our ports and now, there is a grain corridor and they manipulate the use of this corridor by slowing down inspection of ships. Russia keeps leveraging on food security on the globe. When we win and when we ensure secured passage of ships and lift the Russian blockade, then, the situation with food security across the world will become normal again. On the production of grain, you know that some of Ukrainian territories used for agricultural production are under Russian control and they simply stole all the harvests from there and claimed that they donated Russian grain to help African nations to cope with the crises. But I am confident that at least, very big part of the grain was stolen from Ukraine. So, it is easy to donate something when it is stolen. But another problem is the manning of agricultural produce. It will take years for Ukraine to demand its agricultural fields and restore full capacity of production. But even now, we are securing production. We are able to satisfy global needs of grain if we lift Russian blockage or when we lift the blockage of the ports.
Should the blockage of grain corridors linger, what are likely implications?
The access to the Ukrainian grain to the global market would be limited. So, basically, if there was no blockage, sure, food crises would not reach any part of the world. Ukraine would be able to satisfy demand for grain by immediately shipping vast amounts of grain to those regions like we did last summer. We immediately shipped grain to Yemen, Somalia, Kenya and Ethiopia. These countries suffered from drought last year and we immediately sent grain to them. Russia was not able to oppose it because it was a humanitarian initiative but you never know whether they will not oppose it next time. So, the safest way to restore global food security is to lift the Russian blockade from Ukrainian ports and then, make Russia withdraw from our territories so that we can resume full production of agricultural products.
The government of People’s Republic of China recently proposed to intervene in the crises so as to restore peace. How much progress has been made in this regard?
We had a very constructive conversation with the People’s Republic of China and this was through a phone call between Ukraine President Zelenskyy and President Xi Jinping. Two weeks after the call, we received a special envoy of the Chinese government. He did not come with a specific plan. He came with a set of principles, which China believes, has to be respected in the course of the settlement, and we had an in-depth discussion with this special envoy because some of the principles coincide with the principles of the peace formula proposed by President Zelenskyy. Others do not correlate. So, we had a conversation on how to find a balanced solution because if the war is taking place in our territory, if the war is against us, our view must be respected, otherwise, others will impose their solution on us and we don’t want that. Like I am sure African nations do not want anyone to impose solutions on them, we don’t want that either. So, we have a very constructive, in-depth conversation with China.
What is the fate of many Nigerians schooling in Ukraine before the outbreak of the hostility? Is there any hope of accepting them back when normalcy returns to your country?
There is not only hope; I am certain. Historically, Ukraine was a second home to thousands of students from many African countries. Some of them have completed their studies and stayed in Ukraine, continued their lives and became part of us. Others went back to Nigeria to pursue their lives and we are always open to embrace more foreign students. It was only the war that forced the relocation of foreign students. Personally, I spent a lot of time in the first days and weeks of the war helping the evacuation of foreigners, specifically foreign students, including those from Nigeria. We spoke with your Foreign Affairs Minister on the phone and I helped to evacuate them. I remembered when they called the head of our state’s bodyguard and he was in a crisis situation because there were hundreds of thousands of people from Ukraine storming the borders, trying to escape the war. I told him that he needed to open one corridor for foreign students. He listened to me but asked why I should give priority to foreigners over Ukrainians; and I said, “you are right but these foreigners are caught in the war, not because Russia wants to destroy the Ukrainian nation but because there are foreigners studying here. So, we have to give them priority access”. So, he established a separate corridor for them, allowing many African and Asian students to leave Ukraine in a prioritised corridor.
It was not an easy decision but I was confident it was important to do it because we need to maintain people’s trust in us, and we hope this would be appreciated because I know that Russian propaganda is presenting a different picture, but we did a lot to evacuate everyone. Up till today, Ukrainian universities are in the war but my children go to school. My son is entering university this year. So, universities continue their operations and we offer different ways of studying even in this circumstance. So, your students are welcome to continue their studies within available formats. We as a government are working hard to resolve issues relating to studies of foreign students in Ukraine, but once the war ends, we would be happy to see even more foreign students back in Ukraine.
How soon are you anticipating an end to the conflict?
I don’t anticipate. Imagine that you are attacked in the street; you will not set up a deadline for yourselves. I am going to fight with him for one minute but if I realise that I failed, then I give up. You fight for your life, for your belongings, you fight as much as you can and you call for the police to help you. It is the same way with war between states. We will fight till we liberate our territory and protect our people.
I wish this war ended today but instead of ending the war, Russia sent deadly missiles and drones on Ukraine. I don’t want my children to live in fear. I do not want to wake up every night because of the air siren and go to the bomb shelter. No one wants this life, but we know that if we lose, there would be no life for us. Therefore, we will continue to fight.
Nigeria has just welcomed a new President. What kind of relationship do you anticipate between Nigeria and Ukraine?
Ukraine, never in the history of our independence has sent foreign minister to take part in the inauguration of the leader of any African nation. So, the fact that I came here, the first country where the Ukrainian Foreign Minister will be present at the inauguration, speaks of the commitment of Ukraine to developing relationships with the new administration and more broadly, it sends a message to African nations that we come with mutual respect and we want to work with African countries. Of course, every new administration is always about hopes and new approaches. So, we have made our steps to show our respect and we would be looking forward to a step of the new administration towards Ukraine to see how we can both cooperate for our nations to benefit mutually.
*Continue reading from the source: The Guardian