Can you recall you experience in your first sermon. Did you have stage fright?
Oh I nearly died (general laughter) you know my father was a Pastor and he never allowed me to preach. One day he said: ‘This Wednesday night you are going to preach’ oh I was worried. I thought that what if I finished with my sermon in five minutes? You know that was my big worry. And I said I’d preach from what’s on my heart. And I preached from Ezekiel – you know, the watchmen of the night. And I preached and preached and preached.
After an hour, everybody was weeping, I even wept myself. It was just the Holy Spirit moving and everybody was weeping. I preached on the watchmen of the night. I wanted to be a watchman on the wall of Zion; sound the alarm that Jesus is the salvation. And the whole church spoke with one voice. They said “Reinhard, God has truly called you. We are with you.” And while I was a student in Britain, they kept on sending me parcels from Germany with bread, liver sausage and all these goodies I couldn’t get in Britain, showing their love and how they were with me. It was wonderful.
There are different stages of Christian experience – conversion, sanctification and baptism of the Holy Ghost. Can you narrate the stages of this experience?
Well, you know each is based upon the other. Salvation is a gift. So, you don’t need to work for a gift. If you work for it, it won’t be a gift any more. It would be a salary. It is unmerited because it is a gift. It is given by grace. That is where I find salvation. Number two, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is also a gift. You don’t also work for it. Some people think that they have to go to work for the Holy Spirit as swell. It is given freely because God only gives it to whom He wishes. I can give gifts to a small child out of love.
Sanctification is another matter. It is the spiritual process in one’s life where I allow the word of God to wash my mind. The Bible speaks about the water of the Word. I read the Bible everyday not just because I wanted new sermons. I read it because I wanted to wash my mind and my heart of the dust particles that have gathered in the dirty world. When we read words of God it washes out all these things. So, salvation is a gift just as baptism of the Holy Spirit is a gift. Salvation is also a gift but when it comes to sanctification, I have to yield and submit to the Word of God. I have to say no when temptations come. It is all a matter of choice.
Can you tell us the difference between your crusades and fire conference?
Oh! Yes, there is a very big difference. Our gospel campaigns or Crusades as they are generally known are directed at those who don’t know Jesus Christ as their savior yet. We want them to come in and find salvation. Fire Conference are directed towards Christians – to shake them up, to prepare them to do the very work they were sent to do, to go out and seek and retrieve the lost. Not just to sit down and enjoy happy clapping Sunday morning services but become part of Christians. Jesus said you are my witnesses. We all have a part to play in witnessing to those who don’t know Jesus Christ as their Saviour for them to be Christians as well. So, the Crusades are directed at the non-believers or lukewarm Christians, backsliders whereas the Fire Conferences are directed towards Christians.
Narrate your experience in your first contact with Africa. Were you afraid because of the stories of blacks jumping like monkeys from trees that you might have heard about Africa or were you apprehensive when you wanted to come to Africa?
No. I looked forward to it like a boy looks forward to Christmas. I had eagerness and anticipation. I just took to Africa like a duck takes to the water.
We learn’t that your first contact was Lesotho. Is that true?
Yes, I came to Lesotho. You know in those days, Lesotho was surrounded by apartheid South Africa. So, I came to know the ugly face of apartheid. I thought it was a horrible thing. I was greatly offended when my African friends were badly treated when we had to eat somewhere when we travelled from there to South Africa. I truly saw the ugly face of apartheid. So, I am glad that it is over like a nightmare. And I have countless friends still in Lesotho. Many people I won for Jesus right there are bishops and pastors and evangelists – great men of God in their own rights. I still relate with them and some of them visit me in my home. It’s a very strong connection.
What do you do to your converts after each crusades? We believe that you turn them over to local churches with differences in their doctrines. Isn’t there a way you can guide them so that the converts are not misdirected through heresies?
Oh! That’s possible. Well, yes we do not want to link up with heretical churches. That I say with great emphasis. If the church does not believe in salvation, by the blood of Jesus Christ, I hope such a church does not co-operate and I dont want such a church to cooperate. We can pre-sort, we will pre-sort. And I think that if a church doesn’t believe in salvation, people can see it. People are not stupid, they easily know the differences and will go and find some other churches that corresponds with what they have seen and heard at the crusade. So that’s how it is. We do our utmost to safeguard young converts. We want them to come to vibrant churches where the Holy Spirit is really at home and where they are being fed and led in the path of righteousness. But there can be exceptions and there can be accidents that happen here and there. We cannot exclude it but we commit it to the grace, mercy and love of God.
Could you take us through the different stages of the growth of your church?
When I arrived Africa, I used to work for one denomination. Pentecostal Church as a missionary officer. Then the Lord spoke to me. When I was preaching for the denomination, I was condemned to only work for that denomination, as an evangelist. Even the pastor of my own church was slipping back. I am telling others I was not allowed to work for other churches they did not belong to our denomination. But they were far better switched on than we were. And one morning , I read in the Bible, 2nd Kings, about Elijah and a widow. How the widow and her two sons were to be sold into slavery. She cried for help. The prophet said to her, borrow vessels of your neighbor and she went around borrowing vessels. Then she took a little oil and she began to pour and fill the entire vessels. Then the Holy Spirit spoke to me. “I do not just have a burden for the empty vessels in your own church, I have burden for empty vessels in your church’s neighbours. ‘Speak to the other denominations’ He said. You need to go and borrow the empty vessels from all your neighbours, from all the churches so that they will be filled. Oh, I said Lord: those other churches will never lend their vessels to me. They will think I will steal them. The Lord said to me, ‘develop an atmosphere of trust and they will lend their empty vessels. And by a miracle through you I will fill them.’
You know, as God spoke I was not just standing up, I jumped. I was in the middle of a crusade. I jumped and I flew to my headquarters and just as the executives were sitting, I came in, I said I am asking for what you have never done to anybody, release me. I want to borrow vessels from all churches that are empty and I believe God will fill them. And they said we could see God’s hand with you we will release you. I was released and I never looked back. And since that day, we work with all churches that can agree with the gospel we preach to whom it is not too hot a potato as we say in Germany; to those who can stomach original fire gospel. They, I believe will come and they will benefit. Before the crusade is over, all the empty vessels will be filled.
And I stole some coins from my mother’s purse. I went out and bought sweets. She caught me red handed but instead of punishing me, because that was what I deserved, she put her hands around me and said “Reinhard, you are on your way to hell, because you are a thief.”
Can you recall how you felt the first day a miracle happened in your church?
That’s a long story, my goodness! How many hours have you got (general laughter)? I was not a bold man when it comes to miraculous, I knew Jesus heals the sick and my theology was all in place and when the sick came to me, I said that yes. I know that Jesus heals the sick but how can I know that He wants to heal the sick person right now? Because I had no answer to that, I backed off. That’s why my first church at Maseru was a miracle-free zone as some churches are, even today!
Then I heard of a great man in Zululand whom God used for signs and wonders – a real Zulu, Richard Ngidi. God bless that young man. He is already in Heaven. I owe much to him. I truly do. I invited him to come to my church and nobody had told him that my church was a miracle-free zone, so he moved in as if it was not. And I could see God’s power and action. I saw it there and I said I got to stop to question God. I got to take the word of God at face value and act on it.
And about a year later I heard of another man of God, Bosman who was also used by God to do signs and wonders. I invited him to come to my church and there it all happened. He said he would come for two services – one on Sunday and the other on Sunday. He came on Saturday. The place was parked with sick people. He preached ten minutes. Then he called me and said, ‘close the service.’ I said I could not close the service. You have promised to pray for the sick. He said ‘close the service.’ I said oh I close the service on condition that you promise to pray for the sick tomorrow. He said I will next day. I went to the hotel to pick him when I saw him standing with his safari suit. I say hey! But he said ‘I’m glad you came. I’m flying home. I said you couldn’t do that to me. I said I’ve advertised it. It’s impossible, it’s impossible.
He said to me, the Holy Spirit told me to go. I said nonsense. The Holy Spirit will never tell anybody to run away from a gospel meeting. I will never believe this. He said ‘I’m going anyway. And then I woke up and said, well if the Holy Spirit told you to go, bye-bye. I got to my car. That was desperation in my life I will never forget. Sitting behind that steering I cried out, to God there was something like a Holy Spirit wrath in my heart with that man. And I said Lord, I am not a big time evangelist. I’m just a missionary. But I am your son as well. Now I will go and I will preach and I will pray for the sick and you will do the miracle. Peace came into my heart.
I drove to the venue, packed like never before. And I stood up and said to the people ‘the big man has left but Jesus stays. I started to preach. I preached for about ten minutes when suddenly the power of God descended. My interpreter collapsed, cried like a little boy. I mean, not just sobbing, he cried like a little baby. My interpreter had become my interrupter, so I had to pause and suddenly, I heard the Holy Spirit in my heart and he said, ‘my word in your mouth is just as powerful as my word in my mouth.’ At first, it sounded to me like heresy. The Lord repeated it. ‘My word in your mouth is just as powerful as my word in my mouth’ And I knew that the power is in word of God. My interpreter had recovered and I continued to preach. Suddenly, the Holy Spirit spoke to me. He said, to me, pray now for the totally blind. And I had never done that before. And the devil whispered in my ears ‘what if nothing happens? I said devil if that didn’t happen that is the point.
The point now is that I obey the Holy Spirit. I said to the people, how many totally blind people are here? Four stood up. I had the boldness of a lion all of a sudden and I said to them you are going to see me stand on the platform in two minutes’ time. And then I shouted ‘In the name of Jesus, blind eyes open.’ I had not finished crying when I heard a scream from the congregation, ‘I can see’ and another one ‘ I can see’ and another one ‘I can see’ And on and on. Oh! That day I learnt that the Holy Spirit is a healing spirit because blind eyes opened, cripples were healed and power of God filled the people with crying: they were laughing, they were falling to the ground and there was pandemonium. It was a holy chaos. It was absolutely fantastic.
And when that meeting was over, I remembered I began to remember that so-called great man of God. And I felt I needed to repent. I prayed and I said Holy Spirit, I need to repent because now I do believe that you sent the man away because today you have launched my own church. And since then I have continued to see the miraculous power of God in my own life. This is also available to whoever is called and baptized by the Holy Spirit and to act upon the word of God. It is not anybody’s special privilege. It is given to us all.
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