[caption id="attachment_54372" align="alignright" width="600"] Pamela Olubunmi Smith[/caption] PAMELA OLUBUNMI SMITH, a Professor of English, Humanities and Women’s Studies at the University of Nebraska at Omaha spoke with GBENRO ADESINA about the works of PROFESSOR AKINWUMI ISOLA, Yoruba culture and other issues on education Congratulations on the public presentation of your recent book. How do you feel? I feel very great and elated. I had wanted to do this for a long time to honour our Alagba Professor Akinwumi Isola because I would not have been an intellectual and the academic person that I have become if I didn’t get inspiration from his works. If he didn’t do the writings he did, I wouldn’t have had the chance of translating his books. This is his third works that I have translated. I was excited while preparing for the book launch. During the preparation, I joined forces with his wife. I see my publications as my “children”. I call them book-births. It is like having a fifth child. Though, as a parent, you are not supposed to say that one of your five children is your favourite but this is my favourite book-child. In a way, maybe there is an improvement from the previous ones that I did as early as 2000, 2003, 2005, 2010 and now 2016. I am happy that Isola is very happy. I am also happy to get commendations from my colleagues. Most of those that were here for the book presentation are from my group, the Fagunwa Study Group. I didn’t know that any of them was in Nigeria. But I am not surprised they are here because Bookcraft had postponed plans to launch a volume of 34 of the essays that we had written three years ago to commemorate the 50th anniversary of Fagunwa’s death. I had simply mailed to let them know that my book had been published and that I was on my way to Nigeria to launch it. I added that anyone who is in Nigeria should join me for the event. I was surprised when they responded that they were in Nigeria and would be there. Five out of the seven were in Nigeria and they came for the book presentation. Is that not amazing? It took you like how many years? Five years to have it published. The first I did was Efunsetan Aniwura, Iyalode Ibadan and OluOmo (Tinuubu), and it took me about 10 years to publish. It is not that original draft. It is the 15million different drafts that come after the initial translation of the text. The nature of translation is that you can’t translate today and publish next week. Even if this is what you do for a living, it is not possible. And many times, I find myself letting it sit for about six months. You get sort of fresh eyes. You go back to it and look at the original manuscript and sometimes say, “Oh! My God; what was I thinking?” That is the nature of translation. The next time you pick it up, that word you have been struggling with sometimes comes, “voila!” Between writing a book and translating, which one is more difficult? Alagba Isola will tell you the answer to that is ‘translation.’ It is much easier to write a book afresh than translating a book. In translation, you have to worry about so many things. It is already somebody’s idea which must not be distorted in any way. So, getting into the mind of the writer is quite difficult. He could mean this or that. I am lucky that he (Isola) is still alive, and I can ask him questions; and I did many times. As soon as I get into town, I come here to see him, to see what he is up to and say hello to him. He will always ask, “Bawo niise? Se e sin ba ise lo?” (How is your work progressing?) I could be here with him for the next three hours,figuratively, sitting at his feet, but I am sitting across from him, asking him one or two questions or mostly asking him to read key passages from the original book to me so that I can “pick his voice” and put it in my head. He will read it. Then we switch. I will say let me read to you how I have translated that same passage. And 99.9 times, he will say “oun naani”, (you got it right)! He never gets irritated. He will say ‘it is good enough. Don’t change it.’ He is always very accommodating. He is my mentor. He is very generous. He gives. He is not too full of himself. He doesn’t make life difficult for those of us who want to translate his works. For instance, he will say, “don’t bother looking for me to sign anything, just go do it.” That is the level of trust he has placed in me and my abilities. [caption id="attachment_54371" align="alignright" width="600"] Pamela Olubunmi Smith[/caption] Why did it take five or 10 years to publish? It has to do with the economics and politics of the publishing industry. It happens when you don’t find a publisher. You have to go through that. Almost always, a publisher will want to impose on you, asking you to change one thing or the other and if care is not taken, you can mess up the meaning of the original text. Rather than the editor telling you that he doesn’t understand something in your manuscript, s/he will be suggesting that you change this or that and you don’t lose the soul of your work. You don’t know anything about what I am writing. Many people will let go because they want to publish, and it may end up that it is not what you want that comes out. It could have been three (years) because University Press Plc here sat on the manuscript for two years. The editor was here. Hopefully, by next week, there will be a contractfor a Nigeria/Africa edition. Why the choice of “Ogun Omode”? Well, I have already done Efunsetan, and OluOmo Tinuubu. I have always wanted to translate Ogun Omode. Since when did you know Akinwumi? I met him in America in unusual circumstances. What happened was that African Literature Association, ALA, had invited him to America for a programme. But ALA likes to buy bargain flight tickets, which they did for him. The ticket did not get to him on time. He had waited and waited. He kept telling them that he had gotten his visa and they should send the ticket but the ALA was telling him to be patient and that his ticket was on the way. But the deadline of what he had been invited for was coming close. Then he thought he should buy the ticket, come and be reimbursed. That was exactly what he did, but things didn’t work that way. He arrived. In the meantime, the ticket arrived in Nigeria but he had left. He arrived at the airport and found his way to wherever we were, -- a three hour-drive, 300 miles away -- not a bus, but a $500 cab ride. The woman driver was not leaving. He didn’t know, but he hired a cab instead of a limousine. That was when Folabo Ajayi started arranging how to raise the money. We found enough money and paid this woman. That night, here was a poor and tired Isola. Frankly speaking, he looked spent. He looked stunned. Two years later, the ALA asked me to be in charge of translation issues and bring whoever I wanted to the USA. That was how I submitted Isola’s name. In the meantime, in those two years, I visited Nigeria and started reading his books. Everybody kept talking about Efunsetan’s author. I looked into the author and decided, ‘alright, I could do this for women’s studies.’ I did Efunsetan Aniwura, Iyalode Ibadan and OluOmo (Tinuubu) for Women Studies resource. In between them, I did “Omo Olokun Esin,” translated as The Freedom Fight. [caption id="attachment_54370" align="alignright" width="600"] Pamela Olubunmi Smith[/caption] Who are the other authors you have translated their works? I started with Fagunwa, “Igbo Olodumare” but I couldn’t publish it because the family didn’t give me the permission. Mrs. Fagunwa wanted me to publish it but Wole Soyinka had already published it. Wole Soyinka and I translate similarly. So, I don’t think the market will support two English translations of the same text. That is what moves me away from Fagunwa’s works. I wanted my own niche and my interest then was Isola and to some extent, Adebayo Faleti. I have done Faleti’s one and only Yoruba novel, Omo Olokun Esin, translated as The Freedom Fighter. Which one is the next to translate? I am not sure yet. I wrote my children two nights ago to say, well, I have done this and my mum is so proud of me. Now it is your turn to make me proud. Start thinking in terms of how you are going to continue this parental pride. I will be 70 in December. I haven’t thought about retirement. I have five books: four translations and one book of essays edited by me. To write, yes, I have the capacity but everybody wants instant gratification. I don’t know if I have another five years to nurse a potential book-child. See, this book took me three weeks from start to finish, starting from the front of the novel to the back of the novel. People are unaware that I had undergone shoulder surgery. When I was recuperating at my son-in-law and daughter’s home, at night when the pains come, everybody is upstairs asleep, I on the couch downstairs could not sleep. I was awake feeling the pain. Like I said, it took me just three weeks to translate the whole book. That was the first draft. Afterward, countless drafts which I can’t tell you their number. That took like how many weeks? That was another one year because when I left it and I didn’t go back to it for another three or six months. Then, later when I picked it up, I did with afresh set of eyes which made me wonder,“was I drunk when I translated this?”and then return to the original to check and ensure that what I have accurately reflects the author’s intent. So, I am correct to say that the translation took a year but the delay from the publisher made it run for five years before it came out? Yes, absolutely. It is not that it is that difficult. For example Efunsetan and OluOmo Tinuubu were individually too small and that was why I joined them together as a book. They are a drama book. But Europeans hardly publish drama anymore. There is no market for it. This one I finished in five years; it might take another five years to interest someone. With your revelation, what is the future for drama. Is it advisable for the young scholars to specialize in drama in school? It probably doesn’t affect the practice of theatre. It is just that books in general are not lucrative. Anything that is not a novel or textbook, you are not going to open a bookshop and start promoting them. On the shelves, they are collecting dust. Why should I dissipate energy on something that can’t bring returns of my hard work and money? Why will I print 500 copies and have them sit on the market, gathering dust? No. I will not do that. Why is it only Yoruba books that you work on? That is what I know best. What do you want to achieve from that? Wide distribution and facilitation of inter-cultural exchanges. I know that American universities, especially the West Coast, teach Yoruba Studies. They talk about cross cultural. Cultures just have to co-exist and broaden. So, you don’t want to be cultural isolationists. Without translations, the target trans-cultural audiences are very limited. I am committed to not letting Yoruba atrophy. I will not allow Yoruba to die or go into extinction. Some African languages and younger genres have actually atrophied. Yoruba is not anywhere close to being one of them. However, with Faleti, Isola and Oladejo Okediji as the last living Yoruba stalwarts, when we are talking about literary figures, we will talk about these people but the question we have not asked ourselves is that after these people have gone, what happens to Yoruba language and literature? It is better to start to dissipate energy on promoting Yoruba culture and language than to allow it to get to crisis point. It is better to start promoting Yoruba writers. It is literature that makes a language lives because it is literature that uses language practically. What can you say about Yoruba culture? I just did a very interesting paper when I came last July on sabbatical. I spent some of my time at the Yoruba Language Centre, at University of Ibadan. I had always wanted to do a paper on “Ikini ni Ile Yoruba”, greetings in Yorubaland. I finally got assigned to do an essay for our Yoruba Encyclopedia entry. It was a wonderful experience. I learnt from that experience. In writing, Yoruba has a knack for wisdom-packed literature. For instance, instead of writing about how to become an “Omoluabi,” Isola wove the concept and definition into a story reflecting omoluabi ethos. For example, Iyiola was a rascal but Delodun was very quiet, respected his elders. Embedded in the development of that contrast between those two characters lies what Yoruba call omoluabi. Yoruba concept and culture are at once explained. For example, elders tell youngsters, “when you kill a snake, you must cut the head off.” He expanded this same practical knowledge in this example to show the culture at work. This same Iyiola and Delodun were in the bush. Iyiola called Delodun and said stand here and block this hole when Delodun has already seen the snake and ran. Iyiola killed the snake and cut some banana leaves and put it inside, loosely wrapping it. They were going to take it home and Delodun says, “What do you want with this thing?” and his cousin says, “Oh, I am just going to have fun with it. I am going to frighten Ejiniike and put her in her place and retaliate or whatever”. This Ejinike who is a jittery eight year- old ran to them and asked, “What did you bring for me? And they said, “We brought you some Agbayun”. “Okay, I want my share now”. “Here they are, but don’t be greedy and eat them all; leave some for us”. Unassuming, unknowingly, she went there and took the banana leaf, and as she opened it to take some Agbayun, the dead snake fell out and rested on her feet. She cried and neigbours and elders come. They signalled Delodun and Iyiola to warn them against their rascality. As they rebuked them, they note that these kids had endangered themselves: they didn’t cut off the dead snake’s head! Do you know when a snake regains consciousness, it becomes more dangerous? Those are the rules of engagement. Thou shall not kill a snake without…, thou shall not… all the dos and don’ts, Isola wove into the story so that you are reading and you can’t put it down, you want to know the end and learn lots of wisdom and it is interesting. That is the culture revealed in the practical form through literature, ordinary story. That is the beauty of his capability. It is not all lazed with “owe”, proverb. There is no TV, nothing. In the night, they will tell themselves stories, play moon light plays. Then they are also philosophers. It is through matching weight. One of the four boys has sharp mouth in a bad and creative way. The boy is smart. If you talk, he responds cleverly. Then they have this banter. Again, Isola showing us first, his skills, and secondly, the nature of child- play in Yoruba culture. Those are the kind of things that fascinated me about this book. I have always said Ogun Omode is Isola’s best work for which Isola should be acclaimed. I think many critics are now agreeing with me. I plan to write an essay on the experience of having translated this book. I learned so much. There I am, sitting there, trying to be as poetic and as close to the original text as possible, and cautioning myself to not get carried away with my own creativity, and end up writing rubbish. A translator must ask, “What is he (the author) trying to do here?” Only then must one make a decision. Obviously, concerns about the target audience matters. Certain foreign lexicon can’t be substituted for Yoruba (ijinle) words because, in this case,the target audience and receiving culture are English. [caption id="attachment_54371" align="alignright" width="600"] Pamela Olubunmi Smith[/caption] Where it is necessary, you do a footnote to explain disparate cultural concepts. In some instances, the translator makes the decision to retain certain culture-specific concepts/words in their original. For instance, I will not substitute pap for “ogi”. That is the food, the natural food of the Yoruba people. How do you explain “Iru” that putrid-smelling delicacy that rivals Swedish lutefisk in pungency? Rather than explain it away and compromise its essence in Yoruba culinary culture, I simply footnoted it as an essential daily delicacy in Yoruba soup-making. Yes, this book is telling the story of how the author grew up and generally elements of Yoruba child rearing still practiced today, modern-day differences notwithstanding. If you want to know about Yoruba child rearing, read the book. You can also learn about ageing. Aging comes with wisdom. The ageing comes with more appreciation for who you are, what you are, where you come from, and the gift you have been endowed. This is a long way to answer your question about culture. I have never been to Sierra Leone but that is the first language I spoke; the first culture I knew and appreciated. Is that is why you are “Pamela”? Yes, I am “Saro” and Yoruba. My grandpa and grandma are of Sierra Leonean origin. John Middle Scott, my biological father, is racially mixed. Hence the English names, Pamela Joan. We got Nigerian names from mama’s side, and that is why I am Olubunmi. And mama is from Oyo? We don’t even know what that connection is or how she came by it. She said she is related to Alapinni who she calls “cousin.” We don’t know how they are related. But our paternal side is “Saro paraku”, hard-core Krios from Freetown, although a number of them were born and raised in Lagos. So you are an advocate of African children speaking their languages? Absolutely! I have three grandchildren who know they are Yoruba from Ijebu, but do not speak Yoruba, yet. What baba and mama Isola regret is that their grandchildren are perhaps just now learning to speak Yoruba. In the acknowledgement section, at the beginning of my translation, I expressly noted that this book is for our grandchildren, and I mentioned their names, and hope this translation is the closest and best Isola and I can do to bring Yoruba to all of our grandchildren’s generation and beyond. I feel bad seeing our children not speaking Yoruba. Parents and the formal educational system have a responsibility to ensure that children gain knowledge of their culture, who they are through their MOTHER TONGUE. This is not “rocket science” thinking. What are the other ways you have been exploring to promote Yoruba? Keep writing and keep lecturing abroad. Every opportunity I get, I speak Yoruba. It is lamentable that when the children want to greet uncle or aunty, it is “good morning sir/ma” as if uncle and aunty do not understand Yoruba. What happened to “E Karo, sir/ma?” Bring these kids up in such a way that they will be able to speak Yoruba, their mother tongue language, fluently. We keep saying “speak English, speak in English” just as if English is a ‘lingua franca’ of the home. Everybody seems to have privileged English over their own mother tongue. Let your child speak Yoruba. Speaking Yoruba goes along with its cultural features. It teaches you civility, the core of the language itself, the culture of greetings, respect, and all the things that are embedded in the seemingly simple/stock greeting “E karo sir/ma”. Some claim that they need to master English so that they can pass the WAEC. Why can’t you be multi-lingual, dual-language-speaking in the home? Maybe it will have effect on English that is being privileged? No, rather I say the parents are negligent. You know how to do it? You do it when they are young. You speak Yoruba and English simultaneously to your baby, right after they are born.We don’t give the children credit for their intelligence. Have you ever bothered to find out how a baby learns the language he/she speaks to you? Their language learning capability is phenomenal. By five years, a child knows the response that goes with each question asked or instruction given. He/she does not memorize it. But what about the one he/she will construct? We don’t give them much credit for that intelligence. Why did you study English? I was brought up by an English step-father. But I have always been good at literature. It is a natural knack for me. I have all along wanted to be a teacher, a professor. I always knew what I wanted to be “when I grow up,” but I guess I have just been lucky. I knew I didn’t want to teach at nursery or primary or secondary school. I wanted a high level intellectual thinking profession. I was never a science person. My mind works with words not numbers; my mind works with sounds: poetry, interpretation, seeking denotation, connotation meaning, the word use in this context and logic. Don’t give me science, don’t give me math. What is your area of literature? Comparative Literature What are the challenges women lecturers face? Things are more difficult for women in the academy, and they are not respected. You men do not respect women. I respect my wife... I will confirm that later. But on a more serious note, when I say ‘you men’, I mean collectively. When an individual says “not I,” I am not talking about you, I am talking about men in general. Let me cite an example. It’s a subtle thing that I notice and have experience with my students at the University of Nebraska at Omaha; you can see that they respect the male colleagues more than they respect the female professors. Certain things they dare not do in male classes, they try to do them in female professors’ classes. It is quite apparent in Kids’ interaction with their parents. While many children will not dare argue with daddy, they hone their “debate” skills, it appears, when interacting with their mommy. They will undoubtedly “push the envelope” and argue up a storm. What they can get away with mama, they will not try it with daddy. [caption id="attachment_54370" align="alignright" width="600"] Pamela Olubunmi Smith[/caption] What are the other challenges? It has nothing to do with the students but with the whole of the administration. It hasn’t happened to me. For example, before finishing my master, I got a job, and spent seven years there. Luck has been on my side,and I work hard. This is not the only book I have written, I have written 14 academic essays and I continue to publish, and I am well compensated. Compensation is not money alone. Compensation is that total package. What else could I want? The respect is there. I have ‘academic freedom.’ I want to go and check the children, no one questions me and say you must be in school or in classroom, no. I will go to Denver; our IT will set it up. I teach from the living room in Denver. I am seeing my students, they are interacting with me. If I am in Nigeria, I can still teach from my room. They will set it up for me. They don’t do that for all of us. They know that I am hardworking. I can be in my office till 11pm, working. Thank God, the kids are grown up. I am the only one at home. After my gym, I will start to work. Over there, just show the prove that you are doing it. You have published books, what else do we want? You have proven your mettle. You are not lazy. I am the senior faculty. I am the most senior. I am the most productive and I am well compensated. Have you seen my CV? I shared with junior faculty. I tell them, tighten up. Get published. Always be ready to volunteer if they are asking for who is interested in a particular committee, volunteer, public and voluntary service. Be visible. I am a faculty mentor so when a new faculty is hired, they will hand the faculty to me. I will say let us go for lunch and there, I will show my CV and say that you can do it, don’t be distracted. Today, lecturing is becoming a job for every Tom, Dick and Harry. You are not indispensable, so be careful and now that everything is online. How do you see online study? How can you do online? How can you evaluate? You don’t see who you are teaching and he doesn’t see you. I am so glad I am almost done with teaching. What about distance learning? Distance learning is a different situation. You will see your lecturers and your lecturers will see you. Then you will make use of the little time you have with your lecturers. Distance learning is okay for good and serious students. But for online, it is usually poor evaluation. True, online is flexibility. I don’t believe in online. I teach English, so I am constantly grading papers. You will see your students. What do you do in a scenario such as this: You are in the class and you see a student suddenly start crying, no lecture again that day. I need to know what has happened. Maybe a relative has died or something. The human element is there. Maybe, he is having difficulty and what is the difficulty? He may be worried that he doesn’t know what he should know, or is ashamed that he does not know grammar. Do you think you can tackle that online?