Segun Gbadegesin

Q: We have a worry here about monetization of politics now, compared to the First and Second Republics. What is your take on that?

Q: That is interesting because there was virtually no money in politics in those days as far as I know. Across Yoruba land in the First Republic, politicians invested all they had in the system but made no money on their own. That was the spirit in those days. Those people did not have mansions; but their children did well. It was not an era of security vote. The lesson then is that the nation must refocus. Invest in your children and let us collectively invest in the nation’s children and then we can expect to reap bountiful fruits in the future. I think monetization started with the Second Republic, if we talk about civilian politicians but way before that if we talk about military politicians who got us into this.

Q: Together with your wife, you successfully raised a crop of very good children. Do you want to share with us how you managed to do that?

A: Well thank you very much again. I think I gave credit first to God of course, and to my wife. In particular, I would say something about what I also wrote in the book with respect to public education. I am a product of public education, not private education. My father couldn’t afford it. It wasn’t even that available those days, but public education – primary, secondary, teacher training, excellent institutions for the development, not just academic, but of social and moral character of children.

My children also are products of public education. None of them attended any private school, and I gave the reason in the book. When we came back from the US, after completing our various programs in 1980, my son Muyiwa was admitted to the Unity School Ilorin, in 1981. My wife and I sat down and talked about it. The first thing that occurred to me was that we won’t be able to supervise his character development, and that was primary for me. I knew that wherever he was he would do well academically but I wanted to be able to be in control of his character development and so we talked about it and of course my wife, who was also and still is a very loving mother, didn’t want to have any separation from her children. Fortunately for us, Moremi High School was on the campus of the University of Ife at that time and it was a very good secondary school. The principal was a good disciplinarian, and he was able to have full control of the character and academic development of the children. That’s why we decided that Muyiwa should enroll there and that’s what was replicated for others – everyone enrolled there with the exception of our baby daughter who went with me in 1989 at age 8 to the University of Wisconsin-Madison. When I had my sabbatical, she was the only one who didn’t take the exams to Unity schools. Every one of the others took and was admitted, but they declined to attend because we wanted them to have the exposure to that family character education. Thankfully, it turned out to be ok.
It is good to have varieties of educational experiences for children, a mix of public and private but it seems to me now that what is happening is the gradual abandonment of public education in favour of private education. I think that is bad for the country, in the sense that education is still the avenue, the source for inculcating national values in children. I don’t mean to suggest that private education doesn’t inculcate values, because private education providers include Christian and Muslim religious institutions. However, if we think in terms of national values and which institution is the best equipped for inculcating those, it is the public education system and we need to revamp those institutions. If you go round public institutions today, you see class rooms dilapidated , you see roofs blown off, you see children sitting under trees. I think that is sad, it is tragic.
My children had the benefit of their education there right from their primary school education through their secondary schools. Even in their university education, they were with us because before we left they were at the University of Ife? So we bonded together. It is not easy to separate us. They have that sentimental attachment to us and I think we have that to them as well. I am thankful for them; I am grateful to them for that. That we were able to mould them in the way that we wanted and they accepted because you may want to mould them and they fail to accept. So we thank God.

Q:Now how did you meet this great woman you have been talking about?
A: Some symbolic things happened to me on December 20, 1969. That was when I turned 24. The first symbolic thing that happened to me was that I was able to defer my admission to the University of Ife, effectively on that day. I had been admitted to the University of Ife, I resigned my appointment in the National Bank to take up that admission but it turned out that I had to withdraw my resignation from National Bank because I couldn’t afford to pay the fees. I couldn’t afford it at that time. Shortly after I withdrew my resignation and returned to the bank, something interesting happened. The manager of the bank was Mr S.G.O. Agbabiaka, a very good human being, a good manager. That morning he called me to his office and he had in his hand

The Daily Sketch of that day, and he asked if I had seen The Daily Sketch. I answered “No.” So, he turned the pages and there was the list of Western State scholarships for that year to the University of Ife. My name was there on the list and I didn’t know. The scholarship was meant for the semester that just started but from which I had withdrawn because I didn’t have enough funds to go. So I thanked him and I said “well, I have come back to the bank and I don’t know what to do.” He suggested that I should go and see the Senior Assistant Registrar of the university, Mr Alex Olu Ajayi, who was then visiting Ibadan. He was staying at the Premier Hotel and so I went there. Mr Ajayi promised that he would do whatever we could do for me to not miss the opportunity. However it was not feasible for me to start with the 1969 class because they had started classes and matriculated.

Therefore my admission had to be deferred till the following year. I thanked him. It was on December 19 that I went to Ife and I returned on December 20 and so my admission was deferred and I returned with joy in my heart. It was on that same day that I met my future wife so that’s why I said symbolic things happened on December 20, 1969. That’s how we started and it’s been a wonderful 45 years of marriage.

On our way here, we were agonizing over the deplorable state of the University of Ife. What can really be done to bring back the glory of that University?
When I completed my first degree at Ife, every university that I applied to for graduate studies admitted me. They offered me admission, no questions asked. That was how excellent the academic reputation of Ife was. But it was not about academic reputation alone, which of course was the most important thing. But there was also environmental reputation – the most beautiful campus in Africa was how Ife was referred to. Scholars came from all over the world. In fact, we had expatriates just wanting to be at Ife. How did we come to this sorry pass? I know that faculty members are working very hard. I know that there are still individuals there who take their responsibilities as seriously as Prof. Hezekiah Oluwasanmi. However the system is not working because of the various obstacles and these include political obstacles. Everywhere in the academic world, universities are autonomous. You don’t dabble into the governance situation of the university just because you are providing funding.

Even state universities in the US and in Europe are autonomous, they have their own presidents, the equivalent of vice chancellors, the councils, the boards of trustees are strictly responsible for that. But here it is a different ball game as if we were different species. We say the one who pays the piper must dictate the tunes, and that’s how we get ourselves into all sort of things. Certainly funding is very important and if the universities are given the right direction, I am sure that they will secure funding for their various programmes. But that has not always been the case because the federal government is responsible for most of the universities apart from the state governments and the private ones now. But let’s talk about the federal universities. The idea is that every state will have at least one federal university.

That appears to be our policy direction and I guess it is because we want to be fair to every state. But why multiply entities without necessity? It is certainly not far out to suggest an alternative arrangement in which we have very strong zonal federal universities with satellite campuses throughout the zone. Compare the University of Wisconsin system with its Chancellor and campus scattered throughout the state of Wisconsin. Or why not encourage inter-university collaborations on research and instruction. Certainly, universities do not all have to cover every major degree program. For instance, between Ife and Ibadan, there are areas of collaboration. There are things they can do together that don’t have to be replicated in both universities. It seems to me that what is happening is that the federal government needs a way of projecting itself across the nation and one way of doing it in its own mind is to ensure that every state, every zone has the presence of the federal government without giving the requisite resources and without encouraging them effectively.

The alumni of the universities can also do a whole lot more. I am an alumnus of Ife. The only branch of the university that has ever been in contact with me was the Faculty of Arts. However, the University of Wisconsin Alumni Association, the College of Letters of the University of Wisconsin, and the Department of Philosophy at the University of Wisconsin constantly bombard me with letters of appeal which always include details of what was going on at any one tome. I hope that it is not the sense at our universities that government will do everything for them. It has never worked that way.

Q: What will you be doing in Okeho that you are retiring to?
A: We have a Foundation. My children are the brains behind it. Education of course is our own strength and so we are going to try to bring that to bear on the educational development of the town, not just in Okeho but also Eruwa where my wife came from. We will give scholarships to students. I have actually reached out to principals of secondary schools in Okeho and Eruwa to nominate students for scholarships for this year. This is the year we are starting but it will continue and then of course not just scholarships but also providing assistance for programmatic instructions from time to time – at least getting the students on the right path before it is too late. That is how my wife and I were able to make it. So we will be doing that.
Secondly, the health issue is something we are going to take seriously. Muyiwa was the Commissioner of Health under Governor Abiola Ajimobi’s administration. When they went around for health screening, he came to the realization that many of our people are in dire need of help with respect to health issues and that’s not the first time this has occurred to me. When I was involved as a research assistant in a sponsored public health research, during my undergraduate years, the problem was there. So where we are going to start by providing assistance for preventive health and we are lucky that Oyo state is one of the states that now has this health insurance scheme. We are going to assist with the premiums for health insurance of some of the members of the community, so that not having the funds will not prevent them from having to see the doctor. When I hear people say proudly that they have not seen the doctor in twenty years, I conclude that they don’t know what they are saying. You don’t want that because seeing the doctor at least once a year is not just curative, what is important about seeing the doctor every year is prevention and catching any ailment early enough for management to succeed.
Okeho is honouring you with a cheiftancy title. What chieftancy title is this?
Well, I resisted this for a long time but what happened was this. In 2005, during my 60th birthday anniversary, my wife and I were given chieftaincy titles from Iganna. Since then Kabiyesi, Oba Rafiu Osuolale Mustapha, Adeitan II, the Onjo of Okeho has been putting pressure on me. He has a sound argument to the effect that if my wife and I didn’t have any problem receiving chieftancy titles from Iganna, why should we have any philosophical problem receiving chieftancy titles from Okeho? It came to a head when I told him that my 70th birthday was coming and we are going to celebrate it with a book launch. He was then on pilgrimage to Mecca. He wished me well. A few minutes later, Kabiyesi called back and was emphatic we must now be prepared to have the chieftancy title during the birthday ceremonies. Again I resisted, then one of my cousins called to say that Kabiyesi still didn’t understand. It was then that I asked what title Kabiyesi had in mind. He said Asiwaju of Okeho. I told him that it was the more reason I didn’t want a title because there are so many of my own immediate seniors and peers who should be Asiwaju of Okeho and not me. Thereafter, Kabiyesi himself called me and said that he had made the announcement to his Chiefs during his 10th Coronation anniversary. It appeared that any further resistance would smack of disrespect, and so I thanked him for his magnanimity and thoughtfulness. For me, however, it is not necessary to have a title to joyfully serve the community of one’s birth, the foundation of one’s being. I would be nothing today if I didn’t receive the nurturing of the loving ccommunity that I had the fortune to born into and to grow up in. Returning to give back, therefore, is an obligation that I most voluntarily assume. In view of all the values that I have internalized, to do otherwise is unthinkable.