Comrade Shehu Sani is an author, a playwright and the President of the Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria, a human rights organization based in Kaduna. In this interview with AYORINDE OLUOKUN, the renowned civil rights activist who is now the Senator representing Kaduna Central Senatorial District in the Senate spoke about the Boko Haram insurgency, the crisis affecting the All Progressives Congress in the National Assembly, the administration of President Muhammadu Buhari and other issues. Photos: FEMI IPAYE Given what you know about the way they operate and their motivations, what do you think is responsible for the upsurge in attacks by the Boko Haram insurgents across the Northern states in the past few weeks? We need to remind ourselves that this insurgency started in 2006 when the leader of Boko Haram group was killed by the police. And since that time, there have been fluctuations in terms of successes and failures of the Nigerian military when it comes to issue of curtailing or crushing the insurgency. And we have also seen change in strategy and mode of operations by the insurgent group. First of all, it was suicide bombing, then it came to issue of kidnappings, then it moved to the point of taking over territories and hoisting flags and now, the strategy of suicide bombings has returned. Now, the resurgence of the group could be attributed to two or three things. First of all is that they held territories which were later retaken through joint action by the Nigerian, the Nigerien and the Cameroonian military. Now, the very fact that they have been dislodged from most of their strongholds now pushed them back to their initial strategy of suicide bombings whereby they target soft areas within the cities and then, they blow up themselves thereby inflicting damage and killing people. When they were involved in taking territories and hoisting flags, they were engaging in protecting those areas and imposing their strict version of Islamic rule and then, they didn’t reach out to cities with suicide bombers and all that, but now we are back to that. And secondly, this resurgence can also be attributed to the fact that there is a misconception that the group has been defeated or that the group is likely to fizzle out because we have a new government. So, what they are doing by this new wave of attacks is to send a statement that they are still very strong and still have the capacity to inflict damage on Nigerians. They are also saying clearly that things have not changed in their pursuit of their violent agenda despite the change of government from Jonathan to President Muhammadu Buhari. [caption id="attachment_27239" align="aligncenter" width="300"] •Comrade Shehu Sani[/caption] What are the immediate steps that you think the President must take now to stop the ongoing mindless bloodletting by the insurgents? There are two ways in which we can address the problem. The first is that President Buhari must follow up his words with action- fund, empower, boost the morale of the military and conclude the joint task force with the neighbouring countries to come up with strong actions through which this group can be contained and crushed. That is the military strategy. He must also take up the intelligence angle- empower and fund them and let there be an intelligence agency - civil and the military - that will provide important information through which the insurgents could be curtailed and crushed. And then, on the other side, we have to look at the carrot approach, whereby political, religious, communities and traditional leaders as well as members of civil society groups in the North could be carried along in terms of draining the resource base of the insurgents and also engaging the insurgents. The insurgents are using Islamic texts to say this is their agenda and so, the Islamic leaders of other sects – the Tijaniyya sect, the Izala sect, why don’t they intellectually engage the terrorist group in the sense that you kill children, you kill women, you kill innocent people, you put bombs in schools, churches, markets and motor parks and you call it Jihad? So, we want to engage you from that perspective that this is not what it is and this is what it is supposed to be. And again, since the beginning of the insurgency, there were interventions that we have had from Borno Elders, from the governors in the North East, from the Northern Governors, but what we need to understand is that if the group pick up arms, using Islam as a pretext but engaging the leaders with other Islamic leaders is something that we have not done. And what have clearly sustained the insurgency is the fact that the community, the villages and the people who live along this flashpoints were not carried along in this fight. If you look at the report from the Amnesty International which clearly indicted the Nigerian military, it is very clear that the scorched earth system that was adopted by the military is not something that will produce result. We have seen a situation whereby a whole community is collectively punished for the fact that they are harbouring insurgents, we have seen unlawful arrests, illegal detentions, cases of people disappearing and being tortured in detention centres leading to people being fearful of the military as they are fearful of the insurgents. Nigeria is not an exception in the war against terror. Pakistan, Kenya, Ethiopia, Algeria, Egypt, Yemen are all fighting terror. So, I believe that some of the strategies we need is to learn from these countries which have long history of fighting terrorism. You are an advocate of the carrot and stick approach for which you advocate some sort of negotiations with the Boko Haram sect and very recently, the presidency also said it will be willing to negotiate with members of the group who are ready to drop their armed struggle against Nigeria. You’ve been nominated to be part of one of such negotiation process in the past, but you backed out. Would you be willing to be part of such process this time around if you are called upon? Let’s look at history of negotiation with Boko Haram. The first intervention was the dialogue I facilitated between families of Boko Haram members with former President Olusegun Obasanjo. The second one was the intervention of Dr. Datti Ahmed which was facilitated by a journalist who is now on self exile. And there was a third attempt by the journalists himself to broker peace. All the three attempts were sabotaged. The first one was sabotaged by the former National Security Adviser, the late Andrew Azazi who saw no value in reaching out to the insurgents based on the fact that he was very confident that the group could be defeated within very few months, which never happened. The second one was also sabotaged by the security agencies who leaked details of the negotiations to the media and this made it impossible for the negotiation to continue and Dr. Datti Ahmed felt betrayed. The third one was by the freelance journalist himself who tried to work it out, but it didn’t work in the sense that the conditions given by the insurgents were not accepted by the government. There was a fourth attempt and that was purely on how we can secure the release of the Chibok Girls. And in that very one, it was at the point in which the government and the insurgents were agreeing to swap the girls with the insurgents that were in detention that it failed. The insurgents gave the list of members they wanted to be released, the government agreed, but later reneged at the last minute, saying they have only very few of the Boko Haram members and the talks ended abruptly. I personally declined to serve in the Committee set up by former President Jonathan to dialogue with the group for a number of reasons. One is that we took up two to three initiatives in which the government disappointed us in the end and I wasn’t sure whether that one was going to be any different. And the second point is that there was no prior information to me that I was a member of that panel, my name was simply announced on the air. When my name was announced, I did not just immediately denounce it. What I did was that I made some contacts with the family members of the group and I asked them if anybody was available for dialogue and they said they were not because all the three previous attempts were simply thrown away. So, because of that, I kept that aside. Now, the way forward is, I believe, we can divide this issue into two. The first is that I believe we can explore the possibility of having a dialogue with the group for the purpose of getting the Chibok girls out of captivity. Do you think with alliances it claimed it has made with other jihadist organizations across the world the leadership of Boko Haram will still be open to negotiations like it was when the group was mainly a local affair? You see, that is the difficult aspect of the whole thing because in the beginning we were with a group whose agenda is local, without any serious affiliation to any international terrorist organization. Now, we have a group that is acting as a franchise to a bigger terrorist organization and from which communications and directions with this group will now need the consent of their masters outside of Nigeria. But in all sense of the word, the use of force is very much necessary to help any process of dialogue. When the group find out they cannot win militarily, then they will begin thinking of ending their activities. But when they see they are on a pedestal of strength, they can still strike and inflict damage and they can kill as many people as possible, certainly the process of dialogue is not going to work. I do not subscribe to dialogue with a terrorist group, but we have found ourselves in a difficult situation whereby they are holding us by the groin with our children in their custody. And how we can get these girls out will also determine how we can prosecute this war. When you want to bomb a terrorist camp and you have children there, you have to now think twice abou what you would do. It happened in 2006 when terrorists in Russia took over a whole school and attempts to free those children led to the killing of more than 80 per cent of those children. So, I think we are in a situation in which we have to use force to protect our people, to assert our authority as a nation and as a Republic and we also have to open a window in which the girls have to escape. As a senator, what would you attribute to the seeming difficulty in solving the problems inflicted on the Senate through the defiance of APC leadership by Senator Bukola Saraki and his caucus on the matter of the presiding and principal officers of the upper chamber? The problem in the National Assembly is reflection of the party itself. APC is not a communist party; it is also not a socialist party. It was a convergence of strange political bedfellows with a common goal of evicting a common enemy which is the PDP and the Jonathan administration. The people were not brought together by ideologies, principles but by the compelling need to eject a tyrant and what they did was to unite to achieve that common goal, but what came out later is what can be called post-revolution crisis. Every revolution has a crisis in its aftermath- it has happened in Russia, United States, in countries that have experienced of revolution including China where after ejecting a common enemy, the people started fighting one another. If I should bring your mind back to the building blocks of APC, there was the ACN, there was the ANPP, there was the PDP and there was the CPC. Now, if you look at it from that very point, you will see that all the building blocks share very little in common and they do not have any history of fighting, living, working, failing or achieving together. Now, if you look at it from another point of view, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu built the APC from the foundation to the lintel level, but it was also the new PDP that roofed the house. So, now we are in a situation whereby both sides are asking who owns the house and who should control the House. And that is where the problem is. Right now, the APC stands on a tripod of three Bs- Buhari, Bola Tinubu and Bukola Saraki. Now, if any of these is removed from the APC, the whole party crashes. So, the crises in the National Assembly is a reflection of the post-election crises which the party has found itself- the crisis of managing victory, the crisis of also managing the realities of our differences- that we have existed before. Reconciliation took place a few weeks ago, but the absence of Bola Tinubu and the Southwest party executives raises a lot of questions whether that reconciliation has actually worked or what the Southwest caucus of APC did was just to stay back and not cause any trouble and not endorse what was agreed upon. Another way to look at the issue is that this is a crisis that is projecting towards a post-Buhari era; there are interests that are interested in the presidency after Buhari. And now, everybody is trying to entrench himself and grab his own weapon with which he is going to fight the final battle. After our last meeting, people were told to bury their hatchets, but what most of the gladiators did was to bury their hatchets with leaves to which they can resort to anytime they want to start a fight. And if we zero in on the crisis in the National Assembly, there are two groups in the Senate- the Like Minded Group led by Saraki and the Unity Forum led by Lawan. Now, Saraki has proven to be a good doctor that has diagnosed the problems of the party and simply moved to achieve an advantage which has been able to work for him perfectly. Now, the other side was insisting on an ideal- that the party is supreme and it should decide what members should do and everyone is expected to comply. But they have no provision for a situation in which there was no compliance. Another point is that the supremacy of the party which was insisted upon by Asiwaju and Buhari stopped at the gate of the National Assembly. Once you are in the National Assembly, it is the pronouncements of the Senate President or the Speaker of the House that becomes law. So, the supremacy of the party is dependent on the goodwill and obedience of the presiding officers and not something that comes with a penalty. But we now found ourselves in a situation whereby we simply have to learn to live with it. Saraki now has the support of almost 85 per cent of Senators- both APC and the PDP. So, nothing at this very hour will be able to eject him as it is. And Dogara has also entrenched himself in the House of Representatives. There is nothing that can also eject him, including the party. The party has tongue, but it has no teeth. Now, the Tambuwal doctrine that was applied some years ago has now come into play- when we were in the opposition, we cheered and clapped when Tambuwal disregarded the party and emerged as Speaker. So, why should we now be crying when the same formula is being applied to us? I can remember we seriously commended Tambuwal for his action then, so why should we now condemn the very act which we commended a few years ago? What about the fact that PDP is now sharing leadership of the National Assembly with APC. Are you in support of that? We have gotten ourselves into a situation whereby in the National Assembly, particularly in the Senate, we have no options now than to learn to work with the PDP. I am not among those who endorse co-habitation between the APC leadership and the PDP in the National Assembly because a day before 9 June, we went to bed with the belief that the next day, we were all going to the National Assembly to elect our leaders. On the morning of that very day, we received text messages from the party that the President wants to meet with us at the International Conference Centre. I was a bit confused because the election of the Senate President was supposed to take place by 10 am and from my own understanding, the President had issued a proclamation convening the National Assembly to conduct election of the Senate President and the Speaker. And we also got a message that he wanted to meet us by nine. So, in the belief that we would go to the International Conference Centre and listen to Mr. President and from there proceed to the National Assembly, I went there and sat down. And I was confident when I saw the National Chairma of the party and other executives of the party like the National Secretary, Ogbonna Onu, Asiwaju and the other senators. But I became a bit worried when I looked at it and found out that it is only the Senators from the Lawan camp that were there. And to add to the confusion, within the few minutes of waiting for Mr. President, our phones were jammed by security agents who came to that place. So, we couldn’t receive messages; neither could we send messages out. And we didn’t know what was happening in the outside world. We were simply waiting for President. My thinking was that he was coming there to address us to unite the party so that we don’t go into an election with a divided house. But he never came. And then, suddenly when our phones started working, we learnt that elections had taken place and that the Senate President had emerged and the Deputy Senate President had also been produced and they were now moving to do that of the Speaker. And then, confusion now came into play and the national chairman (John Odigie Oyegun) even appeared to be confused more than even us. He didn’t know what to say. And there was pandemonium. Then, the members of the House of Reps rushed out of that meeting to the National Assembly to go and cast their votes. So, that was why the Gbajabiamila side was also there. Having done all these, the chairman simply had no answer to what happened. So, it was then that I led the insistence that he should lead us to Mr. President who he said was the one who called the meeting. And everyone agreed that we should move to see Mr. President. Someone was saying we needed an appointment. I said we didn’t need an appointment, this was a serious issue. And when we saw Mr. President, he was also as confused as we were in the sense that he also expressed his sadness that the position of the party was not taken. But what we couldn’t understand was the fact that it was the President who issued a proclamation that this Senate should convene and we also received a text message from the party that the President wanted to see us. Now, the Saraki side is right because the proclamation letter carries more weight than the text messages and the proclamation can only be invalidated if there was another letter written by Mr. President to stop them from going ahead with that. But now, we have the Unity Forum that has decided to be loyal to the party, to be loyal to the President, but have now found themselves at the receiving end of an officialdom whereby there was a letter to the Clerk of the National Assembly who did what the letter said he should do. President Buhari was placed in a very difficult situation. He cannot go against what has happened in the National Assembly, but he also has to find a way of appeasing those who are loyal to the party. And the moment he has pronounced support for Saraki and declared that what happened in the National Assembly is constitutional and is right, I, as a senator have no reason to start fighting Saraki or fighting the process because I am not in the Senate to fight. I am there to represent my people and as such, this is what became of it now. The Unity Forum have been loyal, but whether that loyalty is done within the ambit and the convention of what is supposed to be is something that should be left for another day. What do you then say to those who argued that with the way the leadership of the 8th National Assembly emerged, the ‘change’ on which platform the APC campaigned and was voted for by Nigerians has been hijacked? There are two kinds of people who are calling for change. In the first category are those who genuinely voted for change and worked tirelessly for it. They want to see a clean beginning, a clean journey and a clean end, they want to see genuine transformation and overall change in our country. And there are also the second category of people who want change to happen within very few weeks, but they have spent the last 16 years working for change or they are opposed to those working for change. If you take the first category, their concerns are credible and are genuine, they voted for APC, they wanted to see APC take the whole positions in the National Assembly. They also want to see the APC candidates they want emerge as the Principal Officers in the National Assembly. But even the fact that you are going on a short journey doesn’t mean that you will get a smooth ride. What has happened in the National Assembly may be a blessing in disguise – I want to see an APC Senate President and an APC Deputy Senate President. I want to see a Senate that is controlled by the APC. But if you look at it, the difference between PDP and APC is eight Senators in the Senate and you can call it a very marginal majority. The PDP can still be a hindrance and has the capacity to delay the passing of bills and any government policy and programme. Now, Ekweremadu is the issue in the Senate- as the Deputy Senate President, he gives me goose pimples. But you can also look at it this way- because of Ekweremadu, it is impossible for the PDP in the Senate to do their duty as an opposition because they are already part of the ruling government. And because of Ekweremadu, the South East cannot say they are marginalized because they are fully represented- one of their own is the number five man in the country. So, if you remove Ekweremadu and replace him with an APC Senator, then you will have uniform APC principal officers, but you will have a formidable opposition which you will continue to contend with and which will be opposed to any bill, programme and anything that the government puts forward. And APC is still a divided house in the Senate. Now, if we are a divided house, how do we confront a united PDP? That is an issue. So, for now, we simply have to learn to work with the situation in which we found ourselves because any other thing could seriously tamper with the momentum with which Buhari wants to run his government. PDP cannot be an effective, adversarial opposition as long as Ekweremadu remains the Senate President. For clarification, note that I was not among those who elected him there. But we have gotten ourselves into a situation where we had two options- to keep Ekweremadu and have a harmonious Senate that will endorse the programmes and policies of the Buhari administration, or we remove Ekweremadu and have an APC Senator as the Deputy Senate President and now contend with what we are going to have as an alternative. So, where do you stand on the move by some APC Senators to remove Ekweremadu over allegations that the Standing Orders on which his election was based was forged? I am telling you that it is a catch 22 situation that we’ve found ourselves in. Right now, in the Senate, some Senators are still aggrieved with the way the elections of 9 June took place and we can’t pretend to be united. And the issue of forgery or falsification is not going to be addressed by the police inviting or detaining Ekweremadu or forcing him to do one thing or another. The election of Ekweremadu took place in the Senate and his removal can only come from the Senate. That is the only way I know we can go about it. And you can remove Ekweremadu, but you must also be prepared for the price to pay. You don’t pull out an arrow that has already pierced into the skin in a rush. You have to find the right tools to remove such an arrow without breaking its head. What do you make of the exchange of fisticuffs between legislators, mostly members of APC in the House of Representatives over the same election of principal officers? The National Assembly is not an arena where elected officials are sent to display their karate, boxing, wrestling or judo skills. It is a place of dignity where you are expected to behave responsibly, honestly and represent your people with dignity. It is unfortunate that some people have decided to give a bad image to the National Assembly as a theatre to demonstrate how belligerent they can be. But we should also take it that exchange of fisticuffs is not peculiar to the Nigerian parliament. There have been fisticuffs in many parliaments in the world. What’s your agenda in the Senate? I come from Kaduna State where I was born, grew up and where I schooled. I knew what Nigeria used to be in the past, I knew how it has slid into its present state. Nigeria of the past was Nigeria of peace, of order, of tranquility. Nigeria of the past was a promising country where we saw one another as one, and where we had a focus of where we should be. I weep each time I see nations like Indonesia, Brazil, Malaysia and even South Africa which have today assumed leadership positions over us economically in the global scene and our country is still battling to pay salaries of its workers. I decided to run for the Senate so that I will pursue those ideas which we have been fighting for over the years. I am a civil rights leader who led mass campaign against military dictatorship especially in the North. I was a political prisoner who served so many years in jail and I was among those who were on the streets protesting against military rule. I wore handcuffs and I went to many prisons in Nigeria. I have seen how our democracy that ought to have strengthened the hope of Nigerians and provide for them since 1999 has simply derailed. I am in the Senate to represent my people and pursue their dreams. I’m also in the Senate to represent the constituency of the civil rights movement, to pursue a pan Nigerian agenda that will further strengthen our public, our unity as a nation that will also further strengthen our economy, democracy. I have programmes for my constituency which is basically first of all, about education. Education has been a serious problem in Northern part of Nigeria. The years of neglect by successive governments and also the insurgency has denied education to the lowest of the low as far as the Northern region is concerned. I am here to pursue bills that will address such issues. I am also here to pursue bills that will further enhance the quality of lives of the masses of our people. I am on the left side of the political divide and I am always thinking of the poor, the downtrodden, and the have nots. Whatever we do in health, in education, in employment, in peace and security is that that I will also do to further help my constituency. But every Senator has Nigeria as his constituency and that is to pursue programmes and policies and laws that will help the administration in power to succeed. President Buhari is a man in his early 70s and he has put in so much energy, time and resources for many years to assume this position and today, he is there. And we as Senators must do all we can to help his administration to succeed. And I am in the Senate working together with other senators and the leadership of the Senate to be able to achieve this goal. But I am concerned about the problem that is affecting my party. There are people who invested a lot to see that this party became what it is, but it is sad that we don’t have the unity we had before the election and we now have a crisis that is frozen, not one that has been solved completely. That is a thing of concern to me. And our people are dying in North Eastern Nigeria and what we can do to resuscitate our economy is what we must do. Nigeria must move into the 21st century. We must look at what is happening in the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) world and see how we can fit into that place. That is my overall agenda in the Senate and I believe that with the support of our Creator, we would be able to achieve it. Many people are saying the President is too slow in terms of coming up with policies and key appointments, especially since he had the benefits of two months preparation before he was sworn into office. Do you share this opinion? I share the opinion of those who think Buhari should move faster than he is moving now to address the crises facing our country politically, economically and socially and security wise. But we should also understand the situation in which Buhari has found himself. You don’t run into a land that is dotted with landmines in a hurry. Jonathan administration has committed a lot of financial atrocities and you don’t move into such traps without looking. But what they want Buhari to do is to rush into their snares and their traps. He shouldn’t do that. In the last 16 years, the PDP looted the treasury of the country; they paralysed the economy, impoverished our people and sank us into heavy debts. For a new leader, he has to take his time and take stock of all these problems so that he doesn’t take false steps. It is better taking slow steps than taking wrong steps. I can say it clearly that his actions are slow paced, but it is deliberate in the sense that he wants to make sure that those he will appoint into public office are those that clearly represent by their character, their tendencies, the spirit of his administration. And he also wants to make sure that whatever steps he is going to take will add value to his administration and be in line with the expectations of Nigerians. What is your opinion on how can the crises in the National Assembly could be resolved so that it will not be an impediment to the Buhari administration as some are already predicting? If the APC crisis is not addressed, certainly it will weigh down on the Buhari administration because he will be running with a divided house, a divided party. Buhari needs to move fast and continue to work towards bringing together the warring factions within the party. We cannot have APC without Asiwaju, we cannot also have the party without Bukola Saraki because both of them hold very strong positions in the party and they also represent certain tendencies that we can’t do without. So, reconciliation within the party must be a continuous process and it is only on the basis of that that we will be able to achieve result. If this party breaks, it will be unfortunate for Nigeria and it is also going to be unfortunate for people who expect change to happen. And if this party continues to move in a divided manner as it is now, nothing much will be achieved at the end of the day. So, I want to see the President correct some of the the mistakes that were made. And one of the mistakes that was made was the very fact that since we won our elections into the National Assembly it was not until people started showing interest in certain positions before we were called to come and meet. That mistake was made from the beginning. Immediately after we won elections, there should have been a meeting of elected Parliamentarians, the party and Mr. President and then, everyone will fall into line and then no one will now start creating factions. For now, we have to move forward in the process of reconciliation and to do that, we have to bring an end to groups that exist within the National Assembly. When you come into the National Assembly as a member of House of Reps or as a Senator, one thing that you will discover is that you are being invited to join certain groups. And this groups exist like a cult organizations where allegiance, loyalty to them supercedes your loyalty to the very essence that brought you into the Senate. That is why you have names like the Like Minded Group, The Patriots, the Unity Forum and all kinds of groups. Now, if Parliamentarians are allowed to establish groups, the supreme interest of the nation will be or the purpose for which they are elected will be seriously sacrificed. So, the first step is for all the Senators and members of House of Reps within APC should bring an end to these groups. APC is in dire need of unity now, so that we can deliver the Promised Land to Nigerians. The Governor of your state, Nasir el-Rufai seemed to be taking some steps considered unusual in Nigeria. What is your impression of his administration so far? There are issues which I disagree with him and there are issues on which I align myself with his position. I disagree with him on the distribution of foods to our people. I, as a senator have distributed food items and this is something which is done as part of our tradition in the North. People who are fasting, especially the poor, I have to feed them. I must give food to the poor because I can afford to give food to the poor. And I give food to the poor from my own salary and if I don’t have public account, I should be able to do it on my own. And I know it is not a popular position he has taken with the populace in that place there. We were voted in by most of these common people. They were given rice, money, soaps and fabrics by the PDP, but they refused and voted for us. Now, we are in power, we should be able to alleviate some of their problems. So, I disagree with him on that. On the issue of joint accounts, the way he separated it will be the best thing that will happen to Kaduna State and I hope it will be sustained because most of the states in the federation have simply impoverished the local government system. And the local governments have simply become buildings where people collect their monthly wages and go. So, if this is sustained, it will give power to the local governments to implement developmental projects and also facilitate developments at the local government level. About stopping hawking and begging, what I would say clearly is that if I am a governor of a state, before I will take such a step, I must make provisions for alternatives for the people and by the time I ask you to stop, you must stop. But if I cannot employ those who are hawking into the civil service, and I cannot also invite them to my house to eat and I cannot also pay the school fees of their children, the least thing I should do is to provide capital for them and say as from today, I don’t want to see you on the streets. About begging, it is a social problem- if many of these people have capital with which they will be able to sell and buy, they will not be on the streets begging. So, it still falls into that very line. We simply think of beggars as those destitute we see on the streets. Now, you go to all these five star hotels in Abuja and you see a man who is well dressed, moving close to you, he says he came to see somebody in Abuja and the man’s phone is off or the man has travelled and he wants you to help him with transport money. He wants to go back home and he goes to the next person and the next person and the next person and even you have people calling you every day and I will not say because I am a senator, I have been sent to perform oversight functions, I will not address people’s problems when they come to my house. Poverty has been entrenched for many years, the ruling class have impoverished our people. We have a socio-economic system that has only produced a few bourgeoisie and churning out of figures by the likes of Okonjo-Iweala of economic progress being made while our people continue to wallow in abject poverty. So, when you address social problems, begging will go, when you address economic problems, hawking will go. These are all economic and social problems that need to have a foundation for their eradication before you bring out such policies. If you stop hawking and begging and there is no alternative, you will just give the order, but it will not work.